hackashaq
::| Basketball Guru |::
Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Nov 21, 2021 13:35:04 GMT -8
The problem with third party or multi-party movements in the US is that they skew to the right and ultra right. It’s something about the anger and religiosity of American politics that creates political movements that lean right in times of great upheaval.
You saw that with the Tea Party which led to Trump and the virtual hijacking of the Conservative party by them. Before, it was Wallace’s AIP, The John Birch Society libertarianism, Anderson, Goldwater, the Populist movements of the Pre-War era.
Left wing movement barely ever got a foothold in the US, if ever. Even the Progressive era and the ‘60’s was not a “progressive” era per se, and the institutions created by this wave haven’t really lasted past 1980.
The only way a multi-party system could ever exist is in a Parliamentary system, and you would have to change the entire US Constitution for that to happen.
When I see multi-party runs, I just equate that with liberal losses and that almost invariably leads to conservative gains, if not a further skewing right of the political policy.
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Post by lakeshow on Nov 24, 2021 19:17:46 GMT -8
Guilty
Guilty
Guilty
Any other verdict we would have seen the George Floyd Riots Part II.
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hackashaq
::| Basketball Guru |::
Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Nov 24, 2021 20:32:44 GMT -8
Guilty Guilty Guilty Any other verdict we would have seen the George Floyd Riots Part II. Let’s wait for the sentencing. There is still a chance this can move to the absurd again. Then there is the inevitable appeal.
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Post by lakeshow on May 16, 2022 19:43:50 GMT -8
A white supremacist goes on a shooting rampage in Buffalo a couple days ago to kill black people because he bought into the Great Replacement theory.
Make no mistake about it. These attacks just like the when another white supremacist went on a shooting spree trying to kill as many Latinos at a Walmart in 2019 have all been inspired by Donald Trump’s bigotry. People can blame it all on mental health if they want to but I will not drink that tired old Kool Aid.
Trump remains one of the most dangerous individuals in America today.
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Post by history2b on May 16, 2022 19:51:19 GMT -8
It’s May 2022 a full year and half plus after the 2020 election and Donald Dumbfuck Trump is STILL controlling the Republican Party, blowing steam up the asses of imbeciles too delusional to understand the con game??
You don’t say!
I remember when this thread was started and some people were defending Donald as not so poisonous. I said then and stand by every single word I’ve said since then.
Thanks for the cancer Trump voters. America is a real great place nowadays.
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Post by lakeshow on May 16, 2022 20:10:40 GMT -8
It’s May 2022 a full year and half plus after the 2020 election and Donald Dumbfuck Trump is STILL controlling the Republican Party, blowing steam up the asses of imbeciles too delusional to understand the con game?? You don’t say! I remember when this thread was started and some people were defending Donald as not so poisonous. I said then and stand by every single word I’ve said since then. Thanks for the cancer Trump voters. America is a real great place nowadays. Agreed 100% And I get that some people have some issues with Biden for various reasons. But I dare anybody to try and compare him with Trump on ANY level. Trump is by far the worst person elected to any office in modern American history.
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Post by history2b on May 16, 2022 20:41:35 GMT -8
Agreed he is the worst President of at least the last century, if not ever, continues to be a cancer in society and also the biggest con artist in all of history.
But I also understand him to be a symptom of Neoliberal order. He’s what gets vomited up by the system when it becomes ineffectual.
This shift in governing doctrine stems from the counter revolutionary measures that spawned out of the response to MLK, Malcolm, anti Vietnam war protests, feminism and all of the other liberal movements of the 1960s and 70s.
It was decided that these movements marked the “excesses of democracy” by conservative leaders. If they cave to the demands of the people they will lose their historical control of empire and negroes and other mongrels will have more or less equality within society. Of course that had to be stopped.
Nixon was in some ways the genesis of this ideology but it really wasn’t until Reagan that things were in full swing. All this talk about lack of mental health services nowadays? Reagan era causality. The “War on Drugs” plan that militarized the southern border, that everyone knows still maintains a steady flow of illicit drugs into the country? Another Reagan plan. Rich white people want their cocaine so an illusionary war has to take place in order to justify the client-state relation between the US and various Central and South American regimes, fraught with corruption all throughout, from the CIA, ATF and Border Patrol. In America everything is for sale.
But Neoliberalism took a bad turn when Clinton, good ol’ southern boy that he is, sold out the Democratic Party to corporate America. It was the only way he could stay in power but it cost the US most of its manufacturing productions. NAFTA, was a Bush I piece of legislation that a “wise” Clinton ought to work to pass in order to be a man of pragmatic compromise. The radical insurgency from the right really shot to power in 1994 when Republicans used every opportunity to paint Clinton a “socialist” (he wasn’t) and killed the First Lady’s plan to implement “Socialized Medicine” aka eliminating the for profit health system that is by FAR the worst in the world today.
After 9/11 everything from the Reagan / Bush / Clinton era got electrified, turbo charged and led us to the destructive path we still reside today. Forever wars, crumbling archaic infrastructure, a for profit system of healthcare that has become 1000x worse than it was in the 20th century, and the onset of cultural anomie in society.
Biden was the better of 2 options without question but the ineptitude of the Democratic Party now also serves to ensure the pendulum will swing back the other way. Of course the Republicans use every measure to make sure they block all efforts to make progress (which is why China supports the Republican Party, they know how utterly stupid the party is and love how they self defeat the US from within).
But the US needs to take a hard turn left if it’s ever going to pull itself out from the suffocating decay that has the country in a stronghold.
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Post by shopson67 on May 17, 2022 5:57:54 GMT -8
I don't think the US can take a hard turn left. The only way the Dems can even keep their seats, let alone gain more, is to embrace the masses in the fly-over states that they ignore and tone down the policies that draw ridicule. Identity politics and the like are worthless to people who live hours away from simple medical care and are struggling to get by on a daily basis. Of course, the left actually does more (and can do even more) for those people than the Repubs, but they have been lost to the Right that plays to their fears.
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Post by history2b on May 17, 2022 9:11:30 GMT -8
I don't think the US can take a hard turn left. The only way the Dems can even keep their seats, let alone gain more, is to embrace the masses in the fly-over states that they ignore and tone down the policies that draw ridicule. Identity politics and the like are worthless to people who live hours away from simple medical care and are struggling to get by on a daily basis. Of course, the left actually does more (and can do even more) for those people than the Repubs, but they have been lost to the Right that plays to their fears. Of course the US **can** take a hard left because that is the power of self governance, the whole point of “freedom” to elect representative government etc. Whether it will is a different story. Take your points about identity politics; identity politics is not a “hard left” position. It is a neoliberal virtue signaling position of nothingism. So a tiny tiny fraction of society wants you to identify them by specific pronouns rather than the millennium long binary code of male /female. That’s not leftist. The Dems in the US embrace it because they have no intention of universal healthcare, so to deflect they take side in the brewing culture war. But toning down that rhetoric to “embrace” the flip side of that culture war that not only won’t give universal healthcare but will incite them to believe it’s evil is another story all together. Those poor folks in the fly over states are stuck between embracing virtue signaling Dems who don’t offer universal healthcare and latent con artist Repubs who block it but weave their propaganda around their religion.
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Post by samadams10 on May 17, 2022 10:03:51 GMT -8
Biden was the better of the two options nails it for me. Lesser of two evils is still evil. To say the lesser of two evils is good is a farce.
Biden is an epic fail on Covid and his administration has abandoned science in favor of political expediency and worshipping at the alter of Pfizer. There's a real scientifically proven risk of a future mass disabling event from long covid that can decimate society as we know it. Yet he's fully embraced a let er rip strategy. He doesn't give a shit while he protects himself with social distancing and double masking of ppl around him.
40 pct of deaths from the Omicron January wave were amongst the fully vaccinated as per the Biden CDC definition. So please place that excuse about ppl not vaccinating not being Bidens fault where the sun don't shine.
It is also scientifically evident that the Omlcron sub variant lineages are unstoppable and are more and more immune resistant than the original variants that the current vaccines were designed for. Yet his admin is sitting around doing nothing. There's talk to of vaccine rationing as the funding is exhausted. They have 40 billion to give to Ukraine but not 10 billion to fight the pandemic here at home? 🖕. Don't blame the Republicans - shove the blame again where there's darkness.
As much as Trump was destructive, he gets credit for operation warp speed which led to the Moderna vax that has saved countless lives. So wtf has Biden done besides shipping free covid tests and n95 masks without any mask mandates? In fact, his CDC is itching to remove mask use at every turn for his political benefit. What investments are being made by the federal govt in developing the next gen vaccines? What about therapeutics? They're worshipping at the alter of Pfizer including the barely effective and rebound causing paxlovid oral. Pfizer just declared record profits. I wonder who else benefits from it besides the overpaid executives? And surprise surprise, Pfizer booster was just approved by FDA for 5-11. No other company can fight Covid besides Pfizer. The Biden admin refuses to allow Astrazeneca's Covishield or India's Covaxin in the US. Corbevax developed by a research institute in Texas is approved in India but not in the US. Novavax, a US vaccine maker is gaining approvals in Europe but not the US.
Gee I wonder why we are still stuck on Pfizer and Moderna 🤔. Oho it's because we are the best and we have the best and mRNA is the best. Our collective egos cannot possibly fathom India producing a more effective vaccine that we can use because they're a shithole. Eventhough the spread is significantly lower over there. But but but it's lower because they lie on their numbers and we overcount our cases. Yeah color me skeptical. I call bullshit.
And yes good quality masks do work - think n95, kn95 or kf94. You can't be pulling up your single layer see through material turtleneck over your chin, consider yourself masked then cry that you got COVID and your mask didn't work. That's just fkin stupid.
So no sir. Picking one bad option from two does not transform the bad option into good.
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Post by lakeshow on May 17, 2022 11:41:35 GMT -8
Biden was the better of the two options nails it for me. Lesser of two evils is still evil. To say the lesser of two evils is good is a farce. Biden is an epic fail on Covid and his administration has abandoned science in favor of political expediency and worshipping at the alter of Pfizer. There's a real scientifically proven risk of a future mass disabling event from long covid that can decimate society as we know it. Yet he's fully embraced a let er rip strategy. He doesn't give a shit while he protects himself with social distancing and double masking of ppl around him. 40 pct of deaths from the Omicron January wave were amongst the fully vaccinated as per the Biden CDC definition. So please place that excuse about ppl not vaccinating not being Bidens fault where the sun don't shine. It is also scientifically evident that the Omlcron sub variant lineages are unstoppable and are more and more immune resistant than the original variants that the current vaccines were designed for. Yet his admin is sitting around doing nothing. There's talk to of vaccine rationing as the funding is exhausted. They have 40 billion to give to Ukraine but not 10 billion to fight the pandemic here at home? 🖕. Don't blame the Republicans - shove the blame again where there's darkness. As much as Trump was destructive, he gets credit for operation warp speed which led to the Moderna vax that has saved countless lives. So wtf has Biden done besides shipping free covid tests and n95 masks without any mask mandates? In fact, his CDC is itching to remove mask use at every turn for his political benefit. What investments are being made by the federal govt in developing the next gen vaccines? What about therapeutics? They're worshipping at the alter of Pfizer including the barely effective and rebound causing paxlovid oral. Pfizer just declared record profits. I wonder who else benefits from it besides the overpaid executives? And surprise surprise, Pfizer booster was just approved by FDA for 5-11. No other company can fight Covid besides Pfizer. The Biden admin refuses to allow Astrazeneca's Covishield or India's Covaxin in the US. Corbevax developed by a research institute in Texas is approved in India but not in the US. Novavax, a US vaccine maker is gaining approvals in Europe but not the US. Gee I wonder why we are still stuck on Pfizer and Moderna 🤔. Oho it's because we are the best and we have the best and mRNA is the best. Our collective egos cannot possibly fathom India producing a more effective vaccine that we can use because they're a shithole. Eventhough the spread is significantly lower over there. But but but it's lower because they lie on their numbers and we overcount our cases. Yeah color me skeptical. I call bullshit. And yes good quality masks do work - think n95, kn95 or kf94. You can't be pulling up your single layer see through material turtleneck over your chin, consider yourself masked then cry that you got COVID and your mask didn't work. That's just fkin stupid. So no sir. Picking one bad option from two does not transform the bad option into good. To be honest with you Sammy, I'm not even going to try to unwrap everything you just said about vaccines and the Biden administration. To be fair, I probably don't know as much as you do about all the details regarding the vaccines and the Biden Administration's execution of of fighting the pandemic. But on the surface, what you're saying sounds somewhat harsh and inaccurate because it sounds like you're saying Biden hasn't done a thing to fight the pandemic which I don't think is true at all. And like I said in the other post, who would have handled Covid better? Trump or Biden? For whatever Bien's missteps have been, I'll still take Biden over Trump 10,000 times out of 10,000 times. I'll take the guy who is a career politician over a con artist who tried to con Americans that Covid was no big deal in the first place and who didn't do anything serious until it was too late. Had he acted responsibly we MIGHT NOT have had to endure what we have had to go through the last 2 years. At least Biden did support public education and teachers like me who were on the front lines in the classroom by making sure we had PPE and able to do our jobs in the safest possible manner. Look at what is going on in Florida with that crazy governor, Trump wannabe DeSantis who threatens everybody who dares bring up science and was hell bent on making teachers work in an unsafe environment and who DEFUNDED school districts that chose to enforce mask mandates. When those districts defied DeSantis, Biden funded those schools. Do you think Trump would have backed up those teachers and school districts? Hell no! So no, I don't buy this idea that Biden has done nothing or that somehow things would be better with Trump. The lesser option may not be optimal, but I can promise you that the vast majority of people in my profession across the country would disagree with your assessment about Biden's response on this issue. I'm not saying everything he has done has necessarily been right, but I would rather have him in the White House than Orange face--hand down and it's not even close. At these crazy school board meetings that I have witnessed, it's the chimp Trump supporter parents who do not want their kids wearing masks in school versus the parents who are trying to keep their kids safe while they get their education. The most repugnant parents are the ones who voted for Trump and this toxic behavior is driven by the the lunatic Trump politicians who represent them and are willing to say anything because they are so scared to offend to their Trump base and essentially lose power. Last I checked, that crap ain't comin from the Biden administration and never has. That said, I know Covid is very important and that it is a hot talking point for you Sammy, but my point is not even about Covid really. I'm talking about and this thread was created to highlight how toxic Trump has been to this country. It's 2022 and he is still very toxic on so many levels. The lesser of 2 evils or the better of 2 options? Call it whatever you want to call it. It's a clear night and day difference to me. And I get where 2b is coming from as well because an argument can be made that the forces we are dealing with now were unleashed as far back as Nixon, they were given more oxygen under Reagan, and those forces were energized after the first African American president was elected, and came to be even more dangerous with Trump's rhetoric in 2011 based on what he said about Obama's origin of birth and the Tea Party movement. Then all of that toxicity was given steroids in 2016 to today and it has spilled into every arena of society including this pandemic. All of this fake made up Critical Race Theory (CRT) was created and exploited by Trump. Now you, you can't even teach history in the classroom without getting written up for--oh my goodness teaching kids about the reality that slavery actually happened in this country! Because you might hurt little Johnny's feelings if he is made to feel bad in any way about the history of this country. Please don't get me started on this. I'll just leave it at that because if I type anymore, I might just write an entire dissertation on this.
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Post by history2b on May 17, 2022 14:23:26 GMT -8
I think it’s great that we can speak openly about these things honestly and with integrity. I respect many of the things you both have shared, see the truth involved in both cases and this lends to my belief that Democrats are better suited to actually have a real discussion than modern day Republicans.
This to me has always separated the left from the right. People who I knew or engaged with in debate about Bush 2 or Trump simply deflect deflect deflect, using gaslight tactics to mirror party lines. Bring up evidence that proves them wrong and they’ll change the subject to something else or become as silent as Phoenix Suns arena during that 50 point drubbing by the Mavs.
Even if we don’t fully agree we have to keep these lines of communication moving forward, attempting to further understand both the situations at hand and each other.
While I agree with virtually everything Sam has said about Covid, I also understand Terrence’s hesitancy to throw the guy who gives us silver lining victories under the bus. I can and do speak out against things I don’t agree with with the Biden administration but I will not do so if doing so pushes the pendulum to Trump.
Just like Sam said about not having the game reduced to binary terms of full lockdown vs free for all madness we see now, I also believe it’s imperative to break from the Dem/ Repub binary choice of party. Yes, pragmatically speaking those are the levers of control in charge now but truthfully it’s a frail frail system. Bernie nearly broke thru in 2016 and 2020 and if it weren’t for latent corruption on the part of Hilary Clinton and the DNC Bernie would have been the nominee in 2016. Trump is not a Republican by any means in terms of ideology. He’s a fascist dictator wannabe who dismantled every establishment Republican in 2016 and holds power through constant inflammatory reactionary emotional appeal to this day.
This shows how overwhelmingly Americans are ready to move on from the Neoliberal era. These political cycles historically tend to last about 40+ years or so and that’s what it’s been since Reagan, which was the response to the 40+ years after Roosevelt.
Sadly, I honestly believe it all has to collapse before we get it right though.
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Post by samadams10 on May 17, 2022 17:41:04 GMT -8
I think it’s great that we can speak openly about these things honestly and with integrity. I respect many of the things you both have shared, see the truth involved in both cases and this lends to my belief that Democrats are better suited to actually have a real discussion than modern day Republicans. This to me has always separated the left from the right. People who I knew or engaged with in debate about Bush 2 or Trump simply deflect deflect deflect, using gaslight tactics to mirror party lines. Bring up evidence that proves them wrong and they’ll change the subject to something else or become as silent as Phoenix Suns arena during that 50 point drubbing by the Mavs. Even if we don’t fully agree we have to keep these lines of communication moving forward, attempting to further understand both the situations at hand and each other. While I agree with virtually everything Sam has said about Covid, I also understand Terrence’s hesitancy to throw the guy who gives us silver lining victories under the bus. I can and do speak out against things I don’t agree with with the Biden administration but I will not do so if doing so pushes the pendulum to Trump. Just like Sam said about not having the game reduced to binary terms of full lockdown vs free for all madness we see now, I also believe it’s imperative to break from the Dem/ Repub binary choice of party. Yes, pragmatically speaking those are the levers of control in charge now but truthfully it’s a frail frail system. Bernie nearly broke thru in 2016 and 2020 and if it weren’t for latent corruption on the part of Hilary Clinton and the DNC Bernie would have been the nominee in 2016. Trump is not a Republican by any means in terms of ideology. He’s a fascist dictator wannabe who dismantled every establishment Republican in 2016 and holds power through constant inflammatory reactionary emotional appeal to this day. This shows how overwhelmingly Americans are ready to move on from the Neoliberal era. These political cycles historically tend to last about 40+ years or so and that’s what it’s been since Reagan, which was the response to the 40+ years after Roosevelt. Sadly, I honestly believe it all has to collapse before we get it right though. Definitely agree with everything you said here bro 2b. The last line sums it up. Sadly it is going downhill and going to get way worst before it gets better.
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Post by samadams10 on May 17, 2022 17:55:50 GMT -8
Biden was the better of the two options nails it for me. Lesser of two evils is still evil. To say the lesser of two evils is good is a farce. Biden is an epic fail on Covid and his administration has abandoned science in favor of political expediency and worshipping at the alter of Pfizer. There's a real scientifically proven risk of a future mass disabling event from long covid that can decimate society as we know it. Yet he's fully embraced a let er rip strategy. He doesn't give a shit while he protects himself with social distancing and double masking of ppl around him. 40 pct of deaths from the Omicron January wave were amongst the fully vaccinated as per the Biden CDC definition. So please place that excuse about ppl not vaccinating not being Bidens fault where the sun don't shine. It is also scientifically evident that the Omlcron sub variant lineages are unstoppable and are more and more immune resistant than the original variants that the current vaccines were designed for. Yet his admin is sitting around doing nothing. There's talk to of vaccine rationing as the funding is exhausted. They have 40 billion to give to Ukraine but not 10 billion to fight the pandemic here at home? 🖕. Don't blame the Republicans - shove the blame again where there's darkness. As much as Trump was destructive, he gets credit for operation warp speed which led to the Moderna vax that has saved countless lives. So wtf has Biden done besides shipping free covid tests and n95 masks without any mask mandates? In fact, his CDC is itching to remove mask use at every turn for his political benefit. What investments are being made by the federal govt in developing the next gen vaccines? What about therapeutics? They're worshipping at the alter of Pfizer including the barely effective and rebound causing paxlovid oral. Pfizer just declared record profits. I wonder who else benefits from it besides the overpaid executives? And surprise surprise, Pfizer booster was just approved by FDA for 5-11. No other company can fight Covid besides Pfizer. The Biden admin refuses to allow Astrazeneca's Covishield or India's Covaxin in the US. Corbevax developed by a research institute in Texas is approved in India but not in the US. Novavax, a US vaccine maker is gaining approvals in Europe but not the US. Gee I wonder why we are still stuck on Pfizer and Moderna 🤔. Oho it's because we are the best and we have the best and mRNA is the best. Our collective egos cannot possibly fathom India producing a more effective vaccine that we can use because they're a shithole. Eventhough the spread is significantly lower over there. But but but it's lower because they lie on their numbers and we overcount our cases. Yeah color me skeptical. I call bullshit. And yes good quality masks do work - think n95, kn95 or kf94. You can't be pulling up your single layer see through material turtleneck over your chin, consider yourself masked then cry that you got COVID and your mask didn't work. That's just fkin stupid. So no sir. Picking one bad option from two does not transform the bad option into good. To be honest with you Sammy, I'm not even going to try to unwrap everything you just said about vaccines and the Biden administration. To be fair, I probably don't know as much as you do about all the details regarding the vaccines and the Biden Administration's execution of of fighting the pandemic. But on the surface, what you're saying sounds somewhat harsh and inaccurate because it sounds like you're saying Biden hasn't done a thing to fight the pandemic which I don't think is true at all. And like I said in the other post, who would have handled Covid better? Trump or Biden? For whatever Bien's missteps have been, I'll still take Biden over Trump 10,000 times out of 10,000 times. I'll take the guy who is a career politician over a con artist who tried to con Americans that Covid was no big deal in the first place and who didn't do anything serious until it was too late. Had he acted responsibly we MIGHT NOT have had to endure what we have had to go through the last 2 years. At least Biden did support public education and teachers like me who were on the front lines in the classroom by making sure we had PPE and able to do our jobs in the safest possible manner. Look at what is going on in Florida with that crazy governor, Trump wannabe DeSantis who threatens everybody who dares bring up science and was hell bent on making teachers work in an unsafe environment and who DEFUNDED school districts that chose to enforce mask mandates. When those districts defied DeSantis, Biden funded those schools. Do you think Trump would have backed up those teachers and school districts? Hell no! So no, I don't buy this idea that Biden has done nothing or that somehow things would be better with Trump. The lesser option may not be optimal, but I can promise you that the vast majority of people in my profession across the country would disagree with your assessment about Biden's response on this issue. I'm not saying everything he has done has necessarily been right, but I would rather have him in the White House than Orange face--hand down and it's not even close. At these crazy school board meetings that I have witnessed, it's the chimp Trump supporter parents who do not want their kids wearing masks in school versus the parents who are trying to keep their kids safe while they get their education. The most repugnant parents are the ones who voted for Trump and this toxic behavior is driven by the the lunatic Trump politicians who represent them and are willing to say anything because they are so scared to offend to their Trump base and essentially lose power. Last I checked, that crap ain't comin from the Biden administration and never has. That said, I know Covid is very important and that it is a hot talking point for you Sammy, but my point is not even about Covid really. I'm talking about and this thread was created to highlight how toxic Trump has been to this country. It's 2022 and he is still very toxic on so many levels. The lesser of 2 evils or the better of 2 options? Call it whatever you want to call it. It's a clear night and day difference to me. And I get where 2b is coming from as well because an argument can be made that the forces we are dealing with now were unleashed as far back as Nixon, they were given more oxygen under Reagan, and those forces were energized after the first African American president was elected, and came to be even more dangerous with Trump's rhetoric in 2011 based on what he said about Obama's origin of birth and the Tea Party movement. Then all of that toxicity was given steroids in 2016 to today and it has spilled into every arena of society including this pandemic. All of this fake made up Critical Race Theory (CRT) was created and exploited by Trump. Now you, you can't even teach history in the classroom without getting written up for--oh my goodness teaching kids about the reality that slavery actually happened in this country! Because you might hurt little Johnny's feelings if he is made to feel bad in any way about the history of this country. Please don't get me started on this. I'll just leave it at that because if I type anymore, I might just write an entire dissertation on this. I'll keep it brief bro T. I see and understand your viewpoint and respect it. To me, its not about Biden vs. Trump. Trump is a fascist dictator who wants to rule with an iron fist and that's not going to be good for this country or the World. Nor do I assert or believe that he would've been better than Biden on Covid. I had higher expectations from the party and candidate I voted for and I believed him when he said Science will dictate his policy and response on Covid. In reality, Science has not dictated his policy at all. His policy is vax and relax. That would be great and successful if these first generation vaccinations which only took less than a year to develop under Trump were successful at sterilizing the virus. Unfortunately, they're not. We are in two plus years now with almost 1.5 years under Biden and there's no sign of better next gen vaccines and that is a deep disappointment. Instead we are being fed endless boosters of the same shit which is only lining Pfizer and Moderna's pockets. I smell rat. That is truly disturbing. Biden is disqualified by his own words at the October 2020 Debate with Trump quoted below: “220,000 Americans dead,” he said during the Oct. 22 debate. “You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who … is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.” Well guess what. An additional 700,000 Americans are dead since Biden took office By his own standard, anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain president of the United States of America. His words! No excuses. NO boo hoo, he can't force vaccinate people. There were no vaccines even when he uttered those words. He also said: “It is what it is because you are who you are,” Biden said at the first presidential debate, referencing Trump’s response to a question about the COVID-19 death toll earlier this month when the president said: “They are dying. That’s true. And you — it is what it is.” “The president has no plan. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was,” Biden said. He's using the exact same approach without saying it. It is what it is. Tell me what exactly is Biden's plan besides Vax and Relax? The Vaccines that we currently have, like it or not, sanctioned by Dump's administration under the project lightspeed plan. Again, none of the above is in defense of Trump. But that ain't my bar for a plan that I expected from Biden. The bar is not how bad Trump was. That can't be the bar because anybody will scale it and there will be zero progress. We need higher expectations and results and Biden has failed on Covid.
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Post by lakeshow on May 18, 2022 12:49:43 GMT -8
To be honest with you Sammy, I'm not even going to try to unwrap everything you just said about vaccines and the Biden administration. To be fair, I probably don't know as much as you do about all the details regarding the vaccines and the Biden Administration's execution of of fighting the pandemic. But on the surface, what you're saying sounds somewhat harsh and inaccurate because it sounds like you're saying Biden hasn't done a thing to fight the pandemic which I don't think is true at all. And like I said in the other post, who would have handled Covid better? Trump or Biden? For whatever Bien's missteps have been, I'll still take Biden over Trump 10,000 times out of 10,000 times. I'll take the guy who is a career politician over a con artist who tried to con Americans that Covid was no big deal in the first place and who didn't do anything serious until it was too late. Had he acted responsibly we MIGHT NOT have had to endure what we have had to go through the last 2 years. At least Biden did support public education and teachers like me who were on the front lines in the classroom by making sure we had PPE and able to do our jobs in the safest possible manner. Look at what is going on in Florida with that crazy governor, Trump wannabe DeSantis who threatens everybody who dares bring up science and was hell bent on making teachers work in an unsafe environment and who DEFUNDED school districts that chose to enforce mask mandates. When those districts defied DeSantis, Biden funded those schools. Do you think Trump would have backed up those teachers and school districts? Hell no! So no, I don't buy this idea that Biden has done nothing or that somehow things would be better with Trump. The lesser option may not be optimal, but I can promise you that the vast majority of people in my profession across the country would disagree with your assessment about Biden's response on this issue. I'm not saying everything he has done has necessarily been right, but I would rather have him in the White House than Orange face--hand down and it's not even close. At these crazy school board meetings that I have witnessed, it's the chimp Trump supporter parents who do not want their kids wearing masks in school versus the parents who are trying to keep their kids safe while they get their education. The most repugnant parents are the ones who voted for Trump and this toxic behavior is driven by the the lunatic Trump politicians who represent them and are willing to say anything because they are so scared to offend to their Trump base and essentially lose power. Last I checked, that crap ain't comin from the Biden administration and never has. That said, I know Covid is very important and that it is a hot talking point for you Sammy, but my point is not even about Covid really. I'm talking about and this thread was created to highlight how toxic Trump has been to this country. It's 2022 and he is still very toxic on so many levels. The lesser of 2 evils or the better of 2 options? Call it whatever you want to call it. It's a clear night and day difference to me. And I get where 2b is coming from as well because an argument can be made that the forces we are dealing with now were unleashed as far back as Nixon, they were given more oxygen under Reagan, and those forces were energized after the first African American president was elected, and came to be even more dangerous with Trump's rhetoric in 2011 based on what he said about Obama's origin of birth and the Tea Party movement. Then all of that toxicity was given steroids in 2016 to today and it has spilled into every arena of society including this pandemic. All of this fake made up Critical Race Theory (CRT) was created and exploited by Trump. Now you, you can't even teach history in the classroom without getting written up for--oh my goodness teaching kids about the reality that slavery actually happened in this country! Because you might hurt little Johnny's feelings if he is made to feel bad in any way about the history of this country. Please don't get me started on this. I'll just leave it at that because if I type anymore, I might just write an entire dissertation on this. I'll keep it brief bro T. I see and understand your viewpoint and respect it. To me, its not about Biden vs. Trump. Trump is a fascist dictator who wants to rule with an iron fist and that's not going to be good for this country or the World. Nor do I assert or believe that he would've been better than Biden on Covid. I had higher expectations from the party and candidate I voted for and I believed him when he said Science will dictate his policy and response on Covid. In reality, Science has not dictated his policy at all. His policy is vax and relax. That would be great and successful if these first generation vaccinations which only took less than a year to develop under Trump were successful at sterilizing the virus. Unfortunately, they're not. We are in two plus years now with almost 1.5 years under Biden and there's no sign of better next gen vaccines and that is a deep disappointment. Instead we are being fed endless boosters of the same shit which is only lining Pfizer and Moderna's pockets. I smell rat. That is truly disturbing. Biden is disqualified by his own words at the October 2020 Debate with Trump quoted below: “220,000 Americans dead,” he said during the Oct. 22 debate. “You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who … is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.” Well guess what. An additional 700,000 Americans are dead since Biden took office By his own standard, anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain president of the United States of America. His words! No excuses. NO boo hoo, he can't force vaccinate people. There were no vaccines even when he uttered those words. He also said: “It is what it is because you are who you are,” Biden said at the first presidential debate, referencing Trump’s response to a question about the COVID-19 death toll earlier this month when the president said: “They are dying. That’s true. And you — it is what it is.” “The president has no plan. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was,” Biden said. He's using the exact same approach without saying it. It is what it is. Tell me what exactly is Biden's plan besides Vax and Relax? The Vaccines that we currently have, like it or not, sanctioned by Dump's administration under the project lightspeed plan. Again, none of the above is in defense of Trump. But that ain't my bar for a plan that I expected from Biden. The bar is not how bad Trump was. That can't be the bar because anybody will scale it and there will be zero progress. We need higher expectations and results and Biden has failed on Covid. I hear you brother Sammy. I understand the numbers of Covid deaths are high, but again I'm not so sure if anything would have stopped it. By the time Biden was elected, variants were already in the process of being created and spreading. Is that all on Biden? I don't think so. I'm sure Biden did say things in the debates that he hasn't delivered on. I'm not defending that, but at the same time, I don't think any president has delivered on every promise made on the campaign trail. And Covid has not been like anything we have seen before in modern American history. At the end of the day, I just don't know or think there would be any president whether it be Biden, Trump, or someone else who would have done anything much different than what Biden did. Politicians are controlled by their constituencies and that is not always conducive to what is the right thing to do. That's politics and there's not much we can do about it as the system is currently constructed. I do agree what 2b said about the 2-party system and it's shortcomings and limitations. It's the reason why I'm neither a Democrat or Republican. But what the Republican Party has turned into today, there's no way I can ever be a part of that. I'm exhausted fellas. Brother Sammy, I meant no disrespect to you in my rant above. I'm exasperated by what I am seeing as this country is getting worse and worse. And people are getting worse and worse.
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Post by samadams10 on May 18, 2022 13:18:04 GMT -8
All good brother T. Where you and I agree to disagree is on whether Biden could have done more. I sincerely believe he could have and still can but does not have the will due to his politics. It's much more easier to be popular by saying pandemic is over and get back into offices to fill those downtowns. That's just sad. Your primary oath as president is to protect your people not to win votes. Some things that could still be addressed but won't:
- truthful communication on long covid risks - significant relentless federal investments in next gen vaccines including nasal vaccines that prevent infection vs reducing it's severity - masking mandates - enough cowardice of masks are not required but strongly recommended - raise awareness and research into childhood hepatitis and covid risk - keep a vigilant eye on emerging monkeypox cases that may be covid related - expedite vaccines for below 5 years old - stop the CDC gaslighting on levels of transmission. The CDC is flat out lying with their green map. - not hire covid minimizers as the covid czar - Ashish Jha. He needs to be fired but was hired primarily because he minimizes covid risk and that's popular. - stop lying to the public that schools are safe when indeed they're significant vectors of transmission. - stop lying that getting infected affirds immunity and therefore omicron wave ended the pandemic. Fkin Jimmy Kimmel is positive twice in one month. - Just STOP with the it is what it is and let it rip strategy.
I'm not expecting every campaign promise to be kept. This is egregious. He can't criticize trump if saying it is what it is then go in and do the same thing then cry that nothing else could've been done.
Please no excuses that by the time Biden took over the variants had taken hold so it's not just fault. It's not Trump's fault either then that 220k died under him - it was a new virus that nobody knew about. But Biden was quick to criticize trump for it. Now he doesn't criticize himself for being way worst at it. F that. It's blatant hypocrisy.
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Post by samadams10 on May 18, 2022 13:19:32 GMT -8
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Post by history2b on May 18, 2022 13:55:05 GMT -8
I think those things require at least some context too though Sam. Trump deaths before election 2020 were largely preventable. He waited to restrict many things here and only ultimately did when models showed him he would kill 2,000,000 people by the new year if he stood pat and did nothing. Those first 3 weeks were crucial and the dipshit spent the time protecting the stock market, his financial interests and those of other majority shareholders who control capital. Meanwhile his lip service was that it was “fake” “nothing more than a flu” etc etc. That deliberate misleading of society is criminal beyond comprehension. I enjoyed seeing him sick with Covid all delirious 7 months later. It’s not that I want to excuse Biden, but his plan was derailed by deliberate uncooperative members of society incited by the right. Dumbasses with 20 vaccines already in their body suddenly question whether vaccines are good for their body, while they guzzle chemical laced mass produced carbonated sugar water and heavily pesticided food in toxic polluted cities. I totally get your valid criticism of the Biden Dems for claiming that you can just get your vax and go back to normal, that was wrong. But that’s only half the story. It was part of society doing that and another half saying fuck vaccines we’re going to go out spit out our dirty shit mouths freely everywhere. Can’t mitigate viral transmission under those conditions. Even if we had a responsible leader, administration, party etc. like Taiwan / New Zealand, so long as there are mass numbers of indignant fucks deliberately sabotaging the numbers of infected and dead were going to be high. Like you said, it doesn’t make Biden plan right but for me, the context is Republicans are totally fine killing more expendable people so long as it undermines Biden. There is a sociopathic element to that party right now that poses a huge risk to all of us. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Trump were in power we’d have more deaths because it’s his shithead ring kissing dirtbags making decisions like removing federal mask mandates altogether, red states fighting school districts. Even though I am a Socialist, I don’t think it’s wise to split the left at this moment. I’m someone wanting to break the Dem party for decades but to do so at this moment is an absolute guarantee Trumpism wins. Not sure if you all know this but after Jan 6 2021, Trump wanted to start a new party. Republican leaders begged and pleaded with him not to do it because it would guarantee the Republican Party is finished. Done, kaput. It would split their base and mathematically they’d both be guaranteed losers. And that’s what is true the other way as well. The masses here are too indoctrinated to move away from the control that keeps us locked in a permanent sway of singular corporate control.
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Post by lakeshow on May 18, 2022 14:19:11 GMT -8
I think those things require at least some context too though Sam. Trump deaths before election 2020 were largely preventable. He waited to restrict many things here and only ultimately did when models showed him he would kill 2,000,000 people by the new year if he stood pat and did nothing. Those first 3 weeks were crucial and the dipshit spent the time protecting the stock market, his financial interests and those of other majority shareholders who control capital. Meanwhile his lip service was that it was “fake” “nothing more than a flu” etc etc. That deliberate misleading of society is criminal beyond comprehension. I enjoyed seeing him sick with Covid all delirious 7 months later. It’s not that I want to excuse Biden, but his plan was derailed by deliberate uncooperative members of society incited by the right. Dumbasses with 20 vaccines already in their body suddenly question whether vaccines are good for their body, while they guzzle chemical laced mass produced carbonated sugar water and heavily pesticided food in toxic polluted cities. I totally get your valid criticism of the Biden Dems for claiming that you can just get your vax and go back to normal, that was wrong. But that’s only half the story. It was part of society doing that and another half saying fuck vaccines we’re going to go out spit out our dirty shit mouths freely everywhere. Can’t mitigate viral transmission under those conditions. Even if we had a responsible leader, administration, party etc. like Taiwan / New Zealand, so long as there are mass numbers of indignant fucks deliberately sabotaging the numbers of infected and dead were going to be high. Like you said, it doesn’t make Biden plan right but for me, the context is Republicans are totally fine killing more expendable people so long as it undermines Biden. There is a sociopathic element to that party right now that poses a huge risk to all of us. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Trump were in power we’d have more deaths because it’s his shithead ring kissing dirtbags making decisions like removing federal mask mandates altogether, red states fighting school districts. Even though I am a Socialist, I don’t think it’s wise to split the left at this moment. I’m someone wanting to break the Dem party for decades but to do so at this moment is an absolute guarantee Trumpism wins. Not sure if you all know this but after Jan 6 2021, Trump wanted to start a new party. Republican leaders begged and pleaded with him not to do it because it would guarantee the Republican Party is finished. Done, kaput. It would split their base and mathematically they’d both be guaranteed losers. And that’s what is true the other way as well. The masses here are too indoctrinated to move away from the control that keeps us locked in a permanent sway of singular corporate control. Well said 2b.
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Post by samadams10 on May 18, 2022 14:25:34 GMT -8
Ultimately the restrictions under Trump saved 1.8 million lives eventhough he would've gladly expended them.
Yes absolutely there's a deranged element of the R party that are anti vaxers anti maskers and would rather die to stick it to the Dems. Nothing can be done about these fools. Biden said he's a president for all not just Dems and it's still under his watch. Buck stops at the oval. otherwise he's no different than trump who didn't take responsibility for anything. And non vaxers are no longer the excuse or scapegoat when 40 pct of vaxed are dead.
Now you have His handpicked CDC head Wallensky who's been a disaster from day 1 passing the buck to state and local governments on masking and mitigations. I mean seriously WTF?.
"We urge local leaders to encourage the use of prevention strategies like masking in public indoor settings and increasing access to testing and to treatment,” the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said at a briefing of the White House pandemic response team."
While they in the executive branch stand pat with no challenge to masking on public transportation decision by some trumpian judge in Florida. And now they're failing on securing funding for a vaccination drive in the fall about to bring 100 million infections by their own account. They can't even fund existing vaccines,so how will they find next gen vaccs research? That's an epic failure of leadership. Please no excuses. Thats the number 1 job of the president. Keep the public safe and take the tough decisions to do so. Not cower to the public's conviniences.
And what about having the will to allow only vaccinated people on airplanes? They backed off that too. Pansy ass wimps are too afraid of the magats and thus won't do the right thing. They're afraid to infringe on people's "freedoms" so the pandemic prolongs. That's no great governance. Did fkin Bush the second care about public sentiment before taking the country to war in Iraq? Just lied about wmd and went ahead and enriched his pals. Did Reagan give a fuck when he blatantly corrupted on the Iran Contra affair? But Biden is too scared to use common sense measures of public safety due to his fear of the R party base. Many in his party will give him a pass but many won't. He's being stupid in trying to appease the other side and in the process is losing his own side.
Worst part is despite his efforts to let covid rip to save the economy and to appease the other side, the economy is headed into a recession and the other side will never vote for him even if he turns into trump overnight.
It's going to be disastrous for the Ds this mid term election.
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