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Post by shopson67 on Nov 18, 2019 11:20:11 GMT -8
Nah, Tony had an idea of what he was doing. So does Trump He is no dummy (except when it comes to the Constitution) and knows exactly what he's doing--Being a con artist. Trump is a puppet at best (and worst, actually). This is a man who wanted to nuke a hurricane remember.
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Post by lakeshow on Nov 21, 2019 6:02:14 GMT -8
Did Gordon Sondland become the "John Dean" that will take down this Administration with his revelations yesterday?
Some pretty big bombs dropped, but Trump's stranglehold on the Republican Party is so cult like that it may not make a difference.
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hackashaq
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Post by hackashaq on Nov 21, 2019 9:40:30 GMT -8
Did Gordon Sondland become the "John Dean" that will take down this Administration with his revelations yesterday? Some pretty big bombs dropped, but Trump's stranglehold on the Republican Party is so cult like that it may not make a difference. The Repubtards are too beholden to the unholy far right racists, they will let him off the hook. These are the same hypocrites who tried to impeach Clinton for getting a blowjob.
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Post by shopson67 on Nov 21, 2019 12:56:11 GMT -8
Did Gordon Sondland become the "John Dean" that will take down this Administration with his revelations yesterday? Some pretty big bombs dropped, but Trump's stranglehold on the Republican Party is so cult like that it may not make a difference. The Repubtards are too beholden to the unholy far right racists, they will let him off the hook. These are the same hypocrites who tried to impeach Clinton for getting a blowjob. They already were ignoring most of Sondland's testimony and just focusing on the part where Trump said "I don't want anything". Trump was repeating it like a broken record yesterday.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 10, 2019 13:38:02 GMT -8
Not if the Senate clears him before the election. If the entire Impeachment concludes before November then the Republicans win by letting Trump run around telling those same stupid people that he’s been exonerated, just like the Mueller Investigation, even though he wasn’t at all exonerated, he touted as such again and again. Tell stupid people the same lie over and over again, you win. The key is stupid people. Well, I don't see the impeachment hearing being done in November at all. The House was talking about December sometime. But the point is there is a very high probability Trump is going to remain in office at least until the election. I don't think there's any getting around that reality. So the practical thing the Dems can do is impeach him and make the strongest case possible against him. Yeah, Trump and his cronies will claim whatever they want to claim after the impeachment vote and Senate investigation, but that at least puts more of a dent into his presidency. The key is not winning over the hardcore Trump drones, it's convincing enough people that his election was a sham and not to make the same mistake again in 2020. Two Articles of Impeachment formally brought against Trump today. Article 1--Trump's Abuse of Power Article 2--Trump's Obstruction of Congress The Articles are to go before the Judiciary Committee for a vote (which will pass) Full House then debates the Articles Full House votes on Impeachment Senate Investigation (assuming he gets impeached which he will) for removal from office All this can be done before Christmas. Republicans in the House may do everything in their power to delay the vote when the full House debates but I see Mr. Con Artist being impeached this month or at the very latest early January.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 10:15:18 GMT -8
It took a little over 3 years to get to this point.
The Con Man has been impeached by Congress on 12/18/19. Third president in American history who has been impeached.
Did anybody see how RED his face was at his monkey rally in Michigan last night? While he's screaming and hollering he also disrespected a congresswoman's husband who recently died. Something he has done on more than one occasion to anybody who he doesn't like.
Behavior that is completely unfit for any president.
For anybody to thing that this impeachment is purely political is simply that naive at best and purposefully disingenuous at worst. Republicans in the Senate completely ignoring the testimony of those who were part of Trump's attempt to involve a foreign power in an upcoming U.S. election for political gain is scandalous.
I haven't been the biggest Nancy Pelosi fan, but I give her props for standing up to this con president and making this impeachment happen.
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 11:55:10 GMT -8
It took a little over 3 years to get to this point. The Con Man has been impeached by Congress on 12/18/19. Third president in American history who has been impeached. Did anybody see how RED his face was at his monkey rally in Michigan last night? While he's screaming and hollering he also disrespected a congresswoman's husband who recently died. Something he has done on more than one occasion to anybody who he doesn't like. Behavior that is completely unfit for any president. For anybody to thing that this impeachment is purely political is simply that naive at best and purposefully disingenuous at worst. Republicans in the Senate completely ignoring the testimony of those who were part of Trump's attempt to involve a foreign power in an upcoming U.S. election for political gain is scandalous. I haven't been the biggest Nancy Pelosi fan, but I give her props for standing up to this con president and making this impeachment happen. There isn’t anyone who thinks the impeachment is purely political except: A) Paid political shills for the Republican factions B) Morons who reject all information except what comes from their Master That said Pelosi’s and the Dem party’s failure to charge him him with more crimes is going to bite them in the ass imo. The closest parallel in history is Nixon even then it’s still not close, and he was charged with more articles of impeachment. Pelosi’s plan to keep this short and tight focusing on what I have to assume she believes makes sense to the public, is already being dismissed by chimp loyalists and the Republican propaganda machine. I’m a believer in go big or go home, always, and these tip toeing Democrats are doing things as they have for decades; half assed.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 12:39:28 GMT -8
It took a little over 3 years to get to this point. The Con Man has been impeached by Congress on 12/18/19. Third president in American history who has been impeached. Did anybody see how RED his face was at his monkey rally in Michigan last night? While he's screaming and hollering he also disrespected a congresswoman's husband who recently died. Something he has done on more than one occasion to anybody who he doesn't like. Behavior that is completely unfit for any president. For anybody to thing that this impeachment is purely political is simply that naive at best and purposefully disingenuous at worst. Republicans in the Senate completely ignoring the testimony of those who were part of Trump's attempt to involve a foreign power in an upcoming U.S. election for political gain is scandalous. I haven't been the biggest Nancy Pelosi fan, but I give her props for standing up to this con president and making this impeachment happen. There isn’t anyone who thinks the impeachment is purely political except: A) Paid political shills for the Republican factions B) Morons who reject all information except what comes from their Master That said Pelosi’s and the Dem party’s failure to charge him him with more crimes is going to bite them in the ass imo. The closest parallel in history is Nixon even then it’s still not close, and he was charged with more articles of impeachment. Pelosi’s plan to keep this short and tight focusing on what I have to assume she believes makes sense to the public, is already being dismissed by chimp loyalists and the Republican propaganda machine. I’m a believer in go big or go home, always, and these tip toeing Democrats are doing things as they have for decades; half assed. Would have been dismissed by the chimps regardless how many charges were made against him 2b. This is definitely worse than Nixon's crime, but the Republicans back then weren't scared of Nixon like these cowards are of Trump.
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 13:04:54 GMT -8
There isn’t anyone who thinks the impeachment is purely political except: A) Paid political shills for the Republican factions B) Morons who reject all information except what comes from their Master That said Pelosi’s and the Dem party’s failure to charge him him with more crimes is going to bite them in the ass imo. The closest parallel in history is Nixon even then it’s still not close, and he was charged with more articles of impeachment. Pelosi’s plan to keep this short and tight focusing on what I have to assume she believes makes sense to the public, is already being dismissed by chimp loyalists and the Republican propaganda machine. I’m a believer in go big or go home, always, and these tip toeing Democrats are doing things as they have for decades; half assed. Would have been dismissed by the chimps regardless how many charges were made against him 2b. This is definitely worse than Nixon's crime, but the Republicans back then weren't scared of Nixon like these cowards are of Trump. Yes they would be dismissing BUT now some are also dismissing Democrats ideals, accurately pointing out that if Witness tampering, Emoluments Clause, market interferences etc aren’t crimes therefore he’s not doing anything wrong, especially these 2 little charges. Perhaps Pelosi thought the Senate would be more likely to support these 2 specific charges but that thinking is wrong imo. If you evaluate from the perspective of power alone, consider how Trump operates and then consider how Democrats operate? You can’t fight the mafia with weakness. That’s how you end up in rivers.
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hackashaq
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Post by hackashaq on Dec 19, 2019 14:21:55 GMT -8
What scares me is that the Republicans are setting a really bad precedent that if a President can’t get impeached for misuse of power and obstruction of justice because the Republicans will stick together in Congress, what can a President be impeached for?
How much will this embolden the current or future Presidents?
The separation of powers is threatened.
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 15:02:10 GMT -8
What scares me is that the Republicans are setting a really bad precedent that if a President can’t get impeached for misuse of power and obstruction of justice because the Republicans will stick together in Congress, what can a President be impeached for? How much will this embolden the current or future Presidents? The separation of powers is threatened. Im not concerned with future fear because we don’t have to project into the future. That reality is now. The separation of power is dead and it has immediate consequences.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 16:13:00 GMT -8
Would have been dismissed by the chimps regardless how many charges were made against him 2b. This is definitely worse than Nixon's crime, but the Republicans back then weren't scared of Nixon like these cowards are of Trump. Yes they would be dismissing BUT now some are also dismissing Democrats ideals, accurately pointing out that if Witness tampering, Emoluments Clause, market interferences etc aren’t crimes therefore he’s not doing anything wrong, especially these 2 little charges. Perhaps Pelosi thought the Senate would be more likely to support these 2 specific charges but that thinking is wrong imo. If you evaluate from the perspective of power alone, consider how Trump operates and then consider how Democrats operate? You can’t fight the mafia with weakness. That’s how you end up in rivers. I think the Dems are operating out of doing what they feel is correct (impeaching Trump) and doing what they think is politically strategic (charging him with the most believable crimes that the public can back). Right or wrong this is also about who can win the PR war. Pelosi has a fine line to walk. If you go full blown with charging him with as many articles of impeachment as possible, you might be correct in doing so, but if you can't get the masses behind it, that plan could backfire and then you make Con Man look like a sympathetic figure whose being the victim of a "witch hunt" and that gives him that much more support for a 2020 win. If you take the strategic route, perhaps you are creating the perception that other violations are ok, but at the same time it makes you look more credible by charging him with the most obvious crimes making it harder to create the perception that he's being unfairly charged with wrong doing. It's not an easy task as this kind of behavior by a president and cowardice by his political supporters is absolutely unprecedented in American history. Pelosi has no precedence to follow with an impeachment of this nature and I don't envy her for that. I think history will ultimately tell us what the right decision would be given this impeachment and political climate we are in. At the end of the day, I think she has done the best she can with what is at her disposal because she has also been at odds with members within her own party on when to impeach Trump. Others in the Democratic Party wanted him impeached months ago. She has been slow to pull the trigger on that and I personally believe she was right in waiting it out until something bigger surfaced which would more pointedly paint Trump as a cheat and a criminal. As much as the Russia investigation was clouded by shadiness, the Ukraine situation happens to be a much more clearer example to most Americans about Trump's crime. Most people agree that using any type of leverage in involving a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent is a big no-no. All people have to do is to read the transcript between him and Zelensky to see that. Most Americans don't understand the Russia investigation because it's multi-layered and more complex and therefore it's easier for them to dismiss that as just political anti-Trump banter by the Dems (especially the Trump drones). Again, will it matter to the hardcore Trump drones in Congress and his voters? No. Does it change the narrative about who he is to people who voted for him but are undecided if they will vote for him again in 2020? Yes.
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 17:16:33 GMT -8
Yes they would be dismissing BUT now some are also dismissing Democrats ideals, accurately pointing out that if Witness tampering, Emoluments Clause, market interferences etc aren’t crimes therefore he’s not doing anything wrong, especially these 2 little charges. Perhaps Pelosi thought the Senate would be more likely to support these 2 specific charges but that thinking is wrong imo. If you evaluate from the perspective of power alone, consider how Trump operates and then consider how Democrats operate? You can’t fight the mafia with weakness. That’s how you end up in rivers. I think the Dems are operating out of doing what they feel is correct (impeaching Trump) and doing what they think is politically strategic (charging him with the most believable crimes that the public can back). Right or wrong this is also about who can win the PR war. Pelosi has a fine line to walk. If you go full blown with charging him with as many articles of impeachment as possible, you might be correct in doing so, but if you can't get the masses behind it, that plan could backfire and then you make Con Man look like a sympathetic figure whose being the victim of a "witch hunt" and that gives him that much more support for a 2020 win. If you take the strategic route, perhaps you are creating the perception that other violations are ok, but at the same time it makes you look more credible by charging him with the most obvious crimes making it harder to create the perception that he's being unfairly charged with wrong doing. It's not an easy task as this kind of behavior by a president and cowardice by his political supporters is absolutely unprecedented in American history. Pelosi has no precedence to follow with an impeachment of this nature and I don't envy her for that. I think history will ultimately tell us what the right decision would be given this impeachment and political climate we are in. At the end of the day, I think she has done the best she can with what is at her disposal because she has also been at odds with members within her own party on when to impeach Trump. Others in the Democratic Party wanted him impeached months ago. She has been slow to pull the trigger on that and I personally believe she was right in waiting it out until something bigger surfaced which would more pointedly paint Trump as a cheat and a criminal. As much as the Russia investigation was clouded by shadiness, the Ukraine situation happens to be a much more clearer example to most Americans about Trump's crime. Most people agree that using any type of leverage in involving a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent is a big no-no. All people have to do is to read the transcript between him and Zelensky to see that. Most Americans don't understand the Russia investigation because it's multi-layered and more complex and therefore it's easier for them to dismiss that as just political anti-Trump banter by the Dems (especially the Trump drones). Again, will it matter to the hardcore Trump drones in Congress and his voters? No. Does it change the narrative about who he is to people who voted for him but are undecided if they will vote for him again in 2020? Yes. Then we disagree with that strategy. If you brush crimes under the rug for the sake of saying the public won’t believe it, you’ve lost. The Constitution is clear, if the Democrats can’t make the case they’re weak. I know with 100% certainty if Mitch McConnell were Speaker of the House and Obama was doing everything Trump is doing he wouldn’t be tip toeing any fine lines. They define the narratives. They control the media. They define the terms every time. That’s why the Dems lose. And they’re actively holding propaganda rallies on a near day basis.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 17:41:35 GMT -8
I think the Dems are operating out of doing what they feel is correct (impeaching Trump) and doing what they think is politically strategic (charging him with the most believable crimes that the public can back). Right or wrong this is also about who can win the PR war. Pelosi has a fine line to walk. If you go full blown with charging him with as many articles of impeachment as possible, you might be correct in doing so, but if you can't get the masses behind it, that plan could backfire and then you make Con Man look like a sympathetic figure whose being the victim of a "witch hunt" and that gives him that much more support for a 2020 win. If you take the strategic route, perhaps you are creating the perception that other violations are ok, but at the same time it makes you look more credible by charging him with the most obvious crimes making it harder to create the perception that he's being unfairly charged with wrong doing. It's not an easy task as this kind of behavior by a president and cowardice by his political supporters is absolutely unprecedented in American history. Pelosi has no precedence to follow with an impeachment of this nature and I don't envy her for that. I think history will ultimately tell us what the right decision would be given this impeachment and political climate we are in. At the end of the day, I think she has done the best she can with what is at her disposal because she has also been at odds with members within her own party on when to impeach Trump. Others in the Democratic Party wanted him impeached months ago. She has been slow to pull the trigger on that and I personally believe she was right in waiting it out until something bigger surfaced which would more pointedly paint Trump as a cheat and a criminal. As much as the Russia investigation was clouded by shadiness, the Ukraine situation happens to be a much more clearer example to most Americans about Trump's crime. Most people agree that using any type of leverage in involving a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent is a big no-no. All people have to do is to read the transcript between him and Zelensky to see that. Most Americans don't understand the Russia investigation because it's multi-layered and more complex and therefore it's easier for them to dismiss that as just political anti-Trump banter by the Dems (especially the Trump drones). Again, will it matter to the hardcore Trump drones in Congress and his voters? No. Does it change the narrative about who he is to people who voted for him but are undecided if they will vote for him again in 2020? Yes. Then we disagree with that strategy. If you brush crimes under the rug for the sake of saying the public won’t believe it, you’ve lost. The Constitution is clear, if the Democrats can’t make the case they’re weak. I know with 100% certainty if Mitch McConnell were Speaker of the House and Obama was doing everything Trump is doing he wouldn’t be tip toeing any fine lines. They define the narratives. They control the media. They define the terms every time. That’s why the Dems lose. And they’re actively holding propaganda rallies on a near day basis. I’m not saying it’s right in overlooking any crime, I’m saying I think the Dems are right trying to win the political PR battle. Two different things. In politics what’s right and what is politically expedient are often 2 different things. Lincoln was against slavery, but he knew he would not get elected campaigning on absolutely abolishing it, so he had to appeal to people that he was a moderate on the issue—that he could live with or without it as long as he could keep the Union together. Once he was elected that’s when he could go to work steadily taking it down. Most of us here want the book thrown at Trump, I just think there needs to be a certain level of methodicalness in taking down the monster. And sometimes that requires a more strategic approach.
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 17:49:46 GMT -8
Then we disagree with that strategy. If you brush crimes under the rug for the sake of saying the public won’t believe it, you’ve lost. The Constitution is clear, if the Democrats can’t make the case they’re weak. I know with 100% certainty if Mitch McConnell were Speaker of the House and Obama was doing everything Trump is doing he wouldn’t be tip toeing any fine lines. They define the narratives. They control the media. They define the terms every time. That’s why the Dems lose. And they’re actively holding propaganda rallies on a near day basis. I’m not saying it’s right in overlooking any crime, I’m saying I think the Dems are right trying to win the political PR battle. Two different things. In politics what’s right and what is politically expedient are often 2 different things. Lincoln was against slavery, but he knew he would not get elected campaigning on absolutely abolishing it, so he had to appeal to people that he was a moderate on the issue—that he could live with or without it as long as he could keep the Union together. Once he was elected that’s when he could go to work steadily taking it down. Most of us here want the book thrown at Trump, I just think there needs to be a certain level of methodicalness in taking down the monster. And sometimes that requires a more strategic approach. I know brother, there is no misunderstanding about that or how politics works. But what I think you and others who are in favor of this plan are missing is that the other side comes screaming out mountain every time they find a mole hill. Obama was a terrorist sympathizer, a Muslim, a foreigner, Clinton was deranged, crooked and corrupt for what? Things the public was willing to believe? Because they forced the narratives. They used every corner of power from think tanks, corporate sponsorship, mainstream media, radical media, evangelical heretics in conjunction with their politics. Meanwhile the Democrats are backtracking on what Pelosi herself said was a slam dunk “bribery case” yet didn’t file those charges. Emoluments Clause is about as absolute easy a charge they could have made. What did Bill Clinton do? Twice the amount of charges were filed against him as Trump. I’m going say that again because it bears repeating: twice as many charges were filed against Bill Clinton as were Donald Trump.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Dec 19, 2019 21:06:09 GMT -8
Democrats have been trying to impeach Trump since he won the election! Lol They got their impeachment lol. Now it goes to the Senate and Republicans will shut the shit show down and acquit Trump unless the Evangelical and Hardline Conservatives seizes an opportunity. They could push a Trump out and Pence would become POTUS and Conservatives take back the GOP! Mike Pence has been silent! Lol
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 21:40:10 GMT -8
Democrats have been trying to impeach Trump since he won the election! Lol They got their impeachment lol. Now it goes to the Senate and Republicans will shut the shit show down and acquit Trump unless the Evangelical and Hardline Conservatives seizes an opportunity. They could push a Trump out and Pence would become POTUS and Conservatives take back the GOP! Mike Pence has been silent! Lol So glad you chimed in. So why don’t you explain all of Trump’s illegal and racist rhetoric and actions. I’ve been waiting for 3 years for someone like you to jump in this thread to justify all of his actions.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Dec 19, 2019 21:55:06 GMT -8
Democrats have been trying to impeach Trump since he won the election! Lol They got their impeachment lol. Now it goes to the Senate and Republicans will shut the shit show down and acquit Trump unless the Evangelical and Hardline Conservatives seizes an opportunity. They could push a Trump out and Pence would become POTUS and Conservatives take back the GOP! Mike Pence has been silent! Lol So glad you chimed in. So why don’t you explain all of Trump’s illegal and racist rhetoric and actions. I’ve been waiting for 3 years for someone like you to jump in this thread to justify all of his actions. Who’s justifying his actions? I stated that Democrats have been trying to impeach him since he was elected. Is that not true?
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Post by history2b on Dec 19, 2019 22:25:51 GMT -8
So glad you chimed in. So why don’t you explain all of Trump’s illegal and racist rhetoric and actions. I’ve been waiting for 3 years for someone like you to jump in this thread to justify all of his actions. Who’s justifying his actions? I stated that Democrats have been trying to impeach him since he was elected. Is that not true? Trying to impeach him? Nope. The laws either apply or they don’t. If someone is violating them then accountability applies or it doesn’t. It’s not a matter of “trying.”
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 19, 2019 22:28:31 GMT -8
So glad you chimed in. So why don’t you explain all of Trump’s illegal and racist rhetoric and actions. I’ve been waiting for 3 years for someone like you to jump in this thread to justify all of his actions. Who’s justifying his actions? I stated that Democrats have been trying to impeach him since he was elected. Is that not true? Yes and for good reason. You sound like somebody that completely ignores how Trump has handled the job. Your issue seems to be more about Democrats than the man who has warranted the criticism by his behavior in office.
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