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Post by lakeshow on Jan 8, 2021 15:09:04 GMT -8
I'm not that optimistic 2b.... He can share his views if wants but doubt he would say anything more than just he’s against what the domestic terrorists did.
But even so that is progress from previous conversations where the word of Trump was treated with divinity. Sure, but 70% of Trump's followers would probably say the same thing. That's low hanging fruit to me.
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Post by history2b on Jan 8, 2021 18:02:02 GMT -8
He can share his views if wants but doubt he would say anything more than just he’s against what the domestic terrorists did.
But even so that is progress from previous conversations where the word of Trump was treated with divinity. Sure, but 70% of Trump's followers would probably say the same thing. That's low hanging fruit to me. True but the significance is finding an actual limit. They’ve been in free fall for 4+ years straight. Now we have FINALLY found a bottom. The beginning for any cult member is finding that moment. I wish I could say I agree with your 70% assessment but my guess is it’s closer to 50%.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 9, 2021 12:09:12 GMT -8
All radicals Left or Right must be dealt with. If anyone destroys, burns or loot private or public property must be handled with extreme prejudice. This is America, the greatest nation on earth.
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 9, 2021 13:19:05 GMT -8
All radicals Left or Right must be dealt with. If anyone destroys, burns or loot private or public property must be handled with extreme prejudice. This is America, the greatest nation on earth. blah blah blah.....
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hackashaq
::| Basketball Guru |::
Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Jan 9, 2021 13:44:31 GMT -8
I really don’t like this false equivalency going on here. I don’t recall ever in American history where “liberals” have rushed the Capitol in some half assed attempt at overturning a legitimate presidential election? When has that happened?
When have liberals rushed into a state capital armed with semi-automatic weapons? And lived to tell about it?
I do remember left wing protestors being prosecuted and put in jail for activities 1/1000 of what these Proud Boys and other QAnon types have been getting away with, and in most cases, being praised and supported by the Republican established politicians.
Ronald Reagan even passed a law repealing the right to carry loaded firearms in CA as a response to the Black Panthers. A Republican repealing a gun access law? Yeah, only if it is a bunch of minorities carrying them.
Let’s cut the equivalency argument now. It’s more right wing propaganda.
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Post by history2b on Jan 9, 2021 14:11:48 GMT -8
I really don’t like this false equivalency going on here. I don’t recall ever in American history where “liberals” have rushed the Capitol in some half assed attempt at overturning a legitimate presidential election? When has that happened? When have liberals rushed into a state capital armed with semi-automatic weapons? And lived to tell about it? I do remember left wing protestors being prosecuted and put in jail for activities 1/1000 of what these Proud Boys and other QAnon types have been getting away with, and in most cases, being praised and supported by the Republican established politicians. Ronald Reagan even passed a law repealing the right to carry loaded firearms in CA as a response to the Black Panthers. A Republican repealing a gun access law? Yeah, only if it is a bunch of minorities carrying them. Let’s cut the equivalency argument now. It’s more right wing propaganda. Bingo. That’s the correct term to appropriate what right media does to the brains of its low brow followers; false equivalency. Not just in this case, in every situation. This is why politics has digressed into “but what about-isms” that right wingers falsely cling to without ever taking responsibility for what their movement does. To them everything is justified because “everyone is wrong, right and left.” I’ve seen this narrative play out ad nauseam over the past several days within common folk circles on social media as well as on corporate media through the antics of talking heads and agitators. Never ever ever had any left wing group of any kind ever stormed a government building. And everyone making any kind of false equivalency to this is only making rationalizations as to why things simply have to stay the way they are.
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 9, 2021 14:24:33 GMT -8
I really don’t like this false equivalency going on here. I don’t recall ever in American history where “liberals” have rushed the Capitol in some half assed attempt at overturning a legitimate presidential election? When has that happened? When have liberals rushed into a state capital armed with semi-automatic weapons? And lived to tell about it? I do remember left wing protestors being prosecuted and put in jail for activities 1/1000 of what these Proud Boys and other QAnon types have been getting away with, and in most cases, being praised and supported by the Republican established politicians. Ronald Reagan even passed a law repealing the right to carry loaded firearms in CA as a response to the Black Panthers. A Republican repealing a gun access law? Yeah, only if it is a bunch of minorities carrying them. Let’s cut the equivalency argument now. It’s more right wing propaganda. Bingo. That’s the correct term to appropriate what right media does to the brains of its low brow followers; false equivalency. Not just in this case, in every situation. This is why politics has digressed into “but what about-isms” that right wingers falsely cling to without ever taking responsibility for what their movement does. To them everything is justified because “everyone is wrong, right and left.” I’ve seen this narrative play out ad nauseam over the past several days within common folk circles on social media as well as on corporate media through the antics of talking heads and agitators. Never ever ever had any left wing group of any kind ever stormed a government building. And everyone making any kind of false equivalency to this is only making rationalizations as to why things simply have to stay the way they are. My case in point. That's why I give that lakefan1980 ZERO credit for acknowledging what most people would say is wrong. Both you and hack are 100% correct in your argument of comparing right wing violence to anything liberals have done. In fact, most of what liberals have done that got them in trouble was to CORRECT past or current injustices, not promote anarchy and overthrow legitimate elections. Zero credit from me for getting low hanging fruit. I expect more and better from someone who claims to be ex-military and a Wall Street guy.
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Post by history2b on Jan 9, 2021 14:26:28 GMT -8
All radicals Left or Right must be dealt with. If anyone destroys, burns or loot private or public property must be handled with extreme prejudice. This is America, the greatest nation on earth. False. Claiming “all radicals must be dealt with” is in fact against the concept of the US Constitution that permits freedom of speech, assembly and religion. Property destruction is a different entity from simply maintaining off the center political views. This is America and it’s FAAAR from the greatest nation on Earth with countless examples currently unfolding before your eyes. You’d simply have to pull your head out of its ass in order to see. America is teetering on a failed state at this very moment both socially and economically. Trump is not responsible for all of these problems but he is responsible for exacerbating them. Joe Biden will not be able to “fix” these problems, only to delay the onset of decay. Since Republicans do not plan for unforeseen circumstances their idiotic short sighted economic doctrine of perpetual pursuit of “short term gains” America will always be in constant danger as the planet continues to rapidly change and unravel ecologically. Covid 19 is only 1 small example of what kind of changes we all face into the future but we can clearly see the Republican response to it. Denialism, do nothing, psychopathic economy nihilism. They are the do nothing Party and you’d have to be an absolute fool to buy their ideological bullshit at this very moment. They sell American mythology to keep fools in their place.
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Post by history2b on Jan 9, 2021 17:05:05 GMT -8
Bingo. That’s the correct term to appropriate what right media does to the brains of its low brow followers; false equivalency. Not just in this case, in every situation. This is why politics has digressed into “but what about-isms” that right wingers falsely cling to without ever taking responsibility for what their movement does. To them everything is justified because “everyone is wrong, right and left.” I’ve seen this narrative play out ad nauseam over the past several days within common folk circles on social media as well as on corporate media through the antics of talking heads and agitators. Never ever ever had any left wing group of any kind ever stormed a government building. And everyone making any kind of false equivalency to this is only making rationalizations as to why things simply have to stay the way they are. My case in point. That's why I give that lakefan1980 ZERO credit for acknowledging what most people would say is wrong. Both you and hack are 100% correct in your argument of comparing right wing violence to anything liberals have done. In fact, most of what liberals have done that got them in trouble was to CORRECT past or current injustices, not promote anarchy and overthrow legitimate elections. Zero credit from me for getting low hanging fruit. I expect more and better from someone who claims to be ex-military and a Wall Street guy. I expect more from all people in general but I do see where they go wrong with their consumption of media. This is why I focused on pressing him on sharing what media outlets he consumes. He wouldn’t do it and deflected by claiming “Reuters” was it even though every point he tried to make was a literal carbon copy of various right wing media narratives. Regardless I still think it’s a good thing to find the line certain people won’t cross. What matters now imo is helping people like lakerfan1980 understand that Trump’s movement was ALWAYS a far right wing insurgent movement. He said in his own words the far right and left “have to be dealt with” and so deal with it within yourself by acknowledging your own role in giving rise to a movement that led to a violent insurrection that sought to overthrow democratic rule. I’ve been calling Trump’s movement a coup since 2016. Haven’t found anyone who disagrees with that now.
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 10, 2021 9:10:38 GMT -8
My case in point. That's why I give that lakefan1980 ZERO credit for acknowledging what most people would say is wrong. Both you and hack are 100% correct in your argument of comparing right wing violence to anything liberals have done. In fact, most of what liberals have done that got them in trouble was to CORRECT past or current injustices, not promote anarchy and overthrow legitimate elections. Zero credit from me for getting low hanging fruit. I expect more and better from someone who claims to be ex-military and a Wall Street guy. I expect more from all people in general but I do see where they go wrong with their consumption of media. This is why I focused on pressing him on sharing what media outlets he consumes. He wouldn’t do it and deflected by claiming “Reuters” was it even though every point he tried to make was a literal carbon copy of various right wing media narratives. Regardless I still think it’s a good thing to find the line certain people won’t cross. What matters now imo is helping people like lakerfan1980 understand that Trump’s movement was ALWAYS a far right wing insurgent movement. He said in his own words the far right and left “have to be dealt with” and so deal with it within yourself by acknowledging your own role in giving rise to a movement that led to a violent insurrection that sought to overthrow democratic rule. I’ve been calling Trump’s movement a coup since 2016. Haven’t found anyone who disagrees with that now. Unfortunately I think it’s going to take time for many of these Trump fanatics to realize the error of their ways. People don’t change overnight. It takes time and the history books to change peoples minds. This will certainly go down in the history books and for sure History will not be kind to Trump or this event on January 6, 2021. When people read about it when they are far removed from it (in the distant future) they will be disgusted by the acts of their fellow Americans who took part in it. Even some die hard Trump supporters today will be disgusted by it out of true genuine shame and some because society will force them to look down on it, at least publicly. Of course there will be some who will be proud to their graves, but the narrative will be overwhelmingly against Trump. Now Congress is considering impeaching Trump again or enacting the 25th Amendment to throw him out of office. We’ll see where that goes...
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 10, 2021 10:55:31 GMT -8
Find and Prosecute them all.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 10, 2021 11:18:46 GMT -8
Zero credit from me for getting low hanging fruit. I expect more and better from someone who claims to be ex-military and a Wall Street guy.[/quote] U.S. Army to be exact. And I wouldn’t call myself a Wall Street guy. I’ve invested in the Stock Market for decades and I do swing trades. Now, if you break the law you go to jail. Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, whoever! If you break the LAW, you should go to jail. Period.
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Post by history2b on Jan 10, 2021 11:22:58 GMT -8
Traders, lawmakers and Insider corporate cronies break the law on a daily basis.
The laws that “need to be dealt with” and the ones that go unchecked matter.
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 10, 2021 11:27:21 GMT -8
lakerfan1980, please don't conflate the Proud Boys and white supremacists to Antifa and BLM. That's what I mean about people not knowing the fundamental difference between these groups and their intentions.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 10, 2021 11:50:53 GMT -8
lakerfan1980, please don't conflate the Proud Boys and white supremacists to Antifa and BLM. That's what I mean about people not knowing the fundamental difference between these groups and their intentions. There are criminals in all of those groups and you know it!
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 10, 2021 11:51:27 GMT -8
Traders, lawmakers and Insider corporate cronies break the law on a daily basis. The laws that “need to be dealt with” and the ones that go unchecked matter. They should be prosecuted!
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 10, 2021 12:07:31 GMT -8
lakerfan1980 , please don't conflate the Proud Boys and white supremacists to Antifa and BLM. That's what I mean about people not knowing the fundamental difference between these groups and their intentions. There are criminals in all of those groups and you know it! And which ones are called thugs and which ones are called "patriots"?
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Post by history2b on Jan 10, 2021 12:11:37 GMT -8
Traders, lawmakers and Insider corporate cronies break the law on a daily basis. The laws that “need to be dealt with” and the ones that go unchecked matter. They should be prosecuted! I agree but they largely are not. Organized corruption is rampant in the United States because the focus of law enforcement and prosecution is a different set of crimes. Take for example the Trump supporting couple in Yucaipa CA who held a gender reveal party out in the dry brushfire desert. When their pyrotechnics show went off course they caused the state and the environment more damage than all protests combined in 2020.
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Post by lakerfan1980 on Jan 10, 2021 12:20:52 GMT -8
There are criminals in all of those groups and you know it! And which ones are called thugs and which ones are called "patriots"? Depends on which opinionated news outlet you’re watching. I call a criminal, a criminal.
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Post by lakeshow on Jan 10, 2021 12:28:27 GMT -8
And which ones are called thugs and which ones are called "patriots"? Depends on which opinionated news outlet you’re watching. I call a criminal, a criminal. That may be true, but we all know the general narrative of how black people and white people are depicted in this country when they both commit crimes. Media plays a role, but that's largely a reflection of how society feels in the first place.
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