hackashaq
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Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Dec 14, 2016 9:53:21 GMT -8
Trump pulled a bait and switch. The people who voted for him and put him over the top are the very people who are gonna get royally screwed based on all the crazy appointments he's making. Billionaires who don't give a rats ass about anybody except themselves and their money. The people that made the difference and put him over the top are the people that didn't like either candidate. Data show that 75%+ of this group voted for Trump. So these people that put him over the top seemingly just picked the lesser of two evils. Ummm....they ended up picking the greater evil of the two.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 14, 2016 10:01:32 GMT -8
Entitlement issues. How is that supposed to happen? Well, each situation is different Shop. This view that the government is supposed to answer your question "So, the 18 year old who can't support himself with his minimum wage job is now supposed to pay for school and support himself? How is that going to happen?" is a big part of the problem. The fact that you look to our government to answer that question is in fact the problem. One cannot have the benefits of capitalism/democracy and expect a socialist government to pay for their healthcare, education, food and housing. There's no perfect answer. Life's not fair. It's hard. Working through your education and paying your own way is incredibly difficult. But the people I know that did finish have the character and work ethic to succeed in this highly competitive, not very fair world. The people that I know whose parents paid for everything do not seem to have the same success. They're not battle tested. And when they've finished school after being coddled, they can't seem to find a job. Ironic? Nah, just sad. Believe me, if you want it bad enough you can finish without being subsidized by the government. I know many people that did. And most were not able to get any assistance from anyone. Some are still paying off student loans, but they have good jobs and work hard. You missed my point. The 18 year old should be able to support himself on the minimum wage job. Expecting him to better his situation by supporting himself through college when minimum wage does not support a single human being is ludicrous. Increasing the minimum wage is much more important in my eyes than easing the costs of college. Bernie's pie-in-the-sky plans to make college free are a huge reason why he wasn't the nominee IMO. Obama can't get the most common-sense changes through the house and Senate, but Bernie's going to pass free college? On a separate note, I pity the person that has to clean up Trump's mess in 4 years. He continues to appoint people that either have no experience in their upcoming role, or are the very antithesis of who should helm that department. I guess he's emptying the swamp right into his cabinet. To say people can't survive during college on min wage is folly. I know many that have. They just chose to live extremely lean and make it work. I ate a lot of top ramen when I was younger. My family did not contribute to my education. As far as Trump's appointments? Couldn't agree more. As far as the mess that will be in the wake of his presidency? That remains to be seen. But at this point I would submit there will be a big mess. Hoping the economy will accelerate, rolling back Dodd-Frank, reversing Obamacare will create revenue to support excessive spending and sweeping tax cuts is a slippery slope. Protectionism, reversing Dodd-Frank, rolling back environmental reform, hiring cabinet members that seemingly believe in genetic superiority makes one a bit squeamish.
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Post by shopson67 on Dec 14, 2016 10:23:35 GMT -8
To say people can't survive during college on min wage is folly. I know many that have. They just chose to live extremely lean and make it work. I ate a lot of top ramen when I was younger. My family did not contribute to my education Colleges aren't the same cost as when we were younger though; costs have shot up. Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, $1160 a month gross. If you forgo health insurance, taxes and social security will take 25% of that, bringing you to $870. Here in Rochester, that barely gets you a one bedroom apartment.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 14, 2016 12:47:24 GMT -8
To say people can't survive during college on min wage is folly. I know many that have. They just chose to live extremely lean and make it work. I ate a lot of top ramen when I was younger. My family did not contribute to my education Colleges aren't the same cost as when we were younger though; costs have shot up. Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, $1160 a month gross. If you forgo health insurance, taxes and social security will take 25% of that, bringing you to $870. Here in Rochester, that barely gets you a one bedroom apartment. First, NY minimum wage is $10.75 after the first and escalating up to $15.00 in five years. So I don't understand the comparison. COL is much higher in NY and CA than in other parts of the country which points to a flaw in raising the Fed Min Wage. Companies in the lower COL states will get killed and have to lay off a % of their work force to survive. I'm sure in hindsight the people that get laid off probably prefer to make something than nothing. It's likely that an 18 year-old in that situation may not be able to afford his/her own apartment. I know I couldn't at that age. I lived with parents until I could afford to rent a room, not my own apartment. Therein lies the problem. Many 18 year-olds today want it now. They are not willing to make sacrifices to have long-term financial independence. Cell phones, computers, video games, partying, getting laid, etc.. is far more important than making sacrifices. Sacrifices aren't fun. But ten years later when the people like hackashaq, who had great parenting, are independent and doing well in their careers, they are looked upon with disdain and considered lucky. Not luck. Discipline.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 14, 2016 14:40:41 GMT -8
Colleges aren't the same cost as when we were younger though; costs have shot up. Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, $1160 a month gross. If you forgo health insurance, taxes and social security will take 25% of that, bringing you to $870. Here in Rochester, that barely gets you a one bedroom apartment. First, NY minimum wage is $10.75 after the first and escalating up to $15.00 in five years. So I don't understand the comparison. COL is much higher in NY and CA than in other parts of the country which points to a flaw in raising the Fed Min Wage. Companies in the lower COL states will get killed and have to lay off a % of their work force to survive. I'm sure in hindsight the people that get laid off probably prefer to make something than nothing. It's likely that an 18 year-old in that situation may not be able to afford his/her own apartment. I know I couldn't at that age. I lived with parents until I could afford to rent a room, not my own apartment. Therein lies the problem. Many 18 year-olds today want it now. They are not willing to make sacrifices to have long-term financial independence. Cell phones, computers, video games, partying, getting laid, etc.. is far more important than making sacrifices. Sacrifices aren't fun. But ten years later when the people like hackashaq, who had great parenting, are independent and doing well in their careers, they are looked upon with disdain and considered lucky. Not luck. Discipline.Well said Fish. Agree 100% here. This is an on-going topic of discussion with my students.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 14, 2016 14:44:10 GMT -8
Colleges aren't the same cost as when we were younger though; costs have shot up. Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, $1160 a month gross. If you forgo health insurance, taxes and social security will take 25% of that, bringing you to $870. Here in Rochester, that barely gets you a one bedroom apartment. First, NY minimum wage is $10.75 after the first and escalating up to $15.00 in five years. So I don't understand the comparison. COL is much higher in NY and CA than in other parts of the country which points to a flaw in raising the Fed Min Wage. Companies in the lower COL states will get killed and have to lay off a % of their work force to survive. I'm sure in hindsight the people that get laid off probably prefer to make something than nothing. It's likely that an 18 year-old in that situation may not be able to afford his/her own apartment. I know I couldn't at that age. I lived with parents until I could afford to rent a room, not my own apartment. Therein lies the problem. Many 18 year-olds today want it now. They are not willing to make sacrifices to have long-term financial independence. Cell phones, computers, video games, partying, getting laid, etc.. is far more important than making sacrifices. Sacrifices aren't fun. But ten years later when the people like hackashaq, who had great parenting, are independent and doing well in their careers, they are looked upon with disdain and considered lucky. Not luck. Discipline. Which is why nothing is freely given to my kids. They earn every dollar through house chores and/or grades in school.
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lookaway
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Posts: 157
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Post by lookaway on Dec 14, 2016 18:02:30 GMT -8
Trump pulled a bait and switch. The people who voted for him and put him over the top are the very people who are gonna get royally screwed based on all the crazy appointments he's making. Billionaires who don't give a rats ass about anybody except themselves and their money. The people that made the difference and put him over the top are the people that didn't like either candidate. Data show that 75%+ of this group voted for Trump. So these people that put him over the top seemingly just picked the lesser of two evils. They couldn't stand the idea of a female President so they picked a misogynist
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 14, 2016 18:48:36 GMT -8
The people that made the difference and put him over the top are the people that didn't like either candidate. Data show that 75%+ of this group voted for Trump. So these people that put him over the top seemingly just picked the lesser of two evils. They couldn't stand the idea of a female President so they picked a misogynist Yea. Too hard to accept a female president.
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Post by shopson67 on Dec 15, 2016 9:50:29 GMT -8
Colleges aren't the same cost as when we were younger though; costs have shot up. Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, $1160 a month gross. If you forgo health insurance, taxes and social security will take 25% of that, bringing you to $870. Here in Rochester, that barely gets you a one bedroom apartment. First, NY minimum wage is $10.75 after the first and escalating up to $15.00 in five years. So I don't understand the comparison. COL is much higher in NY and CA than in other parts of the country which points to a flaw in raising the Fed Min Wage. Companies in the lower COL states will get killed and have to lay off a % of their work force to survive. I'm sure in hindsight the people that get laid off probably prefer to make something than nothing. It's likely that an 18 year-old in that situation may not be able to afford his/her own apartment. I know I couldn't at that age. I lived with parents until I could afford to rent a room, not my own apartment. Therein lies the problem. Many 18 year-olds today want it now. They are not willing to make sacrifices to have long-term financial independence. Cell phones, computers, video games, partying, getting laid, etc.. is far more important than making sacrifices. Sacrifices aren't fun. But ten years later when the people like hackashaq, who had great parenting, are independent and doing well in their careers, they are looked upon with disdain and considered lucky. Not luck. Discipline. NYC is not the same as the rest of the state, but I was a little out of date (that was the 2009 rate I used, should have used $9.70, although that isn't in effect until 2017). Again, the minimum wage should support one person living on their own, not with their parents. Imagine trying to support yourself with NYC rents at $10.50/hour, lol. First number is NYC Small Employers (10 or fewer employees), second number is NY Downstate (Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester counties) and the third number is for remainder of NY State: 12/31/2017___$10.50__$10.00__$9.70 12/31/2017___$12.00__$11.00__$10.40 12/31/2018___$13.50__$12.00__$11.10 12/31/2019___$15.00__$13.00__$11.80 12/31/2020___--______$14.00__$12.50 12/31/2021___--______$15.00__Adjusted for inflation annually until rate reaches $15.00
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 15, 2016 11:30:53 GMT -8
First, NY minimum wage is $10.75 after the first and escalating up to $15.00 in five years. So I don't understand the comparison. COL is much higher in NY and CA than in other parts of the country which points to a flaw in raising the Fed Min Wage. Companies in the lower COL states will get killed and have to lay off a % of their work force to survive. I'm sure in hindsight the people that get laid off probably prefer to make something than nothing. It's likely that an 18 year-old in that situation may not be able to afford his/her own apartment. I know I couldn't at that age. I lived with parents until I could afford to rent a room, not my own apartment. Therein lies the problem. Many 18 year-olds today want it now. They are not willing to make sacrifices to have long-term financial independence. Cell phones, computers, video games, partying, getting laid, etc.. is far more important than making sacrifices. Sacrifices aren't fun. But ten years later when the people like hackashaq, who had great parenting, are independent and doing well in their careers, they are looked upon with disdain and considered lucky. Not luck. Discipline. NYC is not the same as the rest of the state, but I was a little out of date (that was the 2009 rate I used, should have used $9.70, although that isn't in effect until 2017). Again, the minimum wage should support one person living on their own, not with their parents. Imagine trying to support yourself with NYC rents at $10.50/hour, lol. First number is NYC Small Employers (10 or fewer employees), second number is NY Downstate (Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester counties) and the third number is for remainder of NY State: 12/31/2017___$10.50__$10.00__$9.70 12/31/2017___$12.00__$11.00__$10.40 12/31/2018___$13.50__$12.00__$11.10 12/31/2019___$15.00__$13.00__$11.80 12/31/2020___--______$14.00__$12.50 12/31/2021___--______$15.00__Adjusted for inflation annually until rate reaches $15.00 America was known for parents and youth Having the ability to sustain in society after age 18. Not anymore. Like third world countries, youth sustain on parents for housing as wages are too low. Unfortunately it's not just after high school, it's also after college. The argument is not about toughening up youth by holding freebies, it's about opportunities to make it on own. These scholarships, grants, loans are all impacted and not looking to be better with new govt. intl students who pay full tuition and subsidize scholarships and grants ain't chopping at the bits anymore for an American education with the current tone, interest rates are on the rise impacting loan repayments, college costs are insane. Agree that millenial generation is spoiled with iPads iPhones and want want want - the answer to that is not reduced opportunities.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 15, 2016 11:46:23 GMT -8
NYC is not the same as the rest of the state, but I was a little out of date (that was the 2009 rate I used, should have used $9.70, although that isn't in effect until 2017). Again, the minimum wage should support one person living on their own, not with their parents. Imagine trying to support yourself with NYC rents at $10.50/hour, lol. First number is NYC Small Employers (10 or fewer employees), second number is NY Downstate (Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester counties) and the third number is for remainder of NY State: 12/31/2017___$10.50__$10.00__$9.70 12/31/2017___$12.00__$11.00__$10.40 12/31/2018___$13.50__$12.00__$11.10 12/31/2019___$15.00__$13.00__$11.80 12/31/2020___--______$14.00__$12.50 12/31/2021___--______$15.00__Adjusted for inflation annually until rate reaches $15.00 America was known for parents and youth Having the ability to sustain in society after age 18. Not anymore. Like third world countries, youth sustain on parents for housing as wages are too low. Unfortunately it's not just after high school, it's also after college. The argument is not about toughening up youth by holding freebies, it's about opportunities to make it on own. These scholarships, grants, loans are all impacted and not looking to be better with new govt. intl students who pay full tuition and subsidize scholarships and grants ain't chopping at the bits anymore for an American education with the current tone, interest rates are on the rise impacting loan repayments, college costs are insane. Agree that millenial generation is spoiled with iPads iPhones and want want want - the answer to that is it reduced opportunities. I don't know if that's what America is known for. I would say that's not at the top of the list of what we're known for. But here again is the problem. People saying minimum wage is supposed to support individuals over 18? That's so subjective and every individual case is unique. That theory would hold true if everyone had the same fixed expenses. We all know that's not the case and couldn't be further from the truth. COL variances are huge geographically and individually. How many of these 18 year-olds are going to go without a cell phone? How about their xbox membership? Internet? Can't do without that. Gotta have cable. I can go on and on. It seems like we want the government to fix our problems for us. Then we get angry when we get laid off because companies have to make money or they go out of business. To say an 18 year-old can't survive on min wage is folly. How does Hackashaq's family survive on minimal income while making sure their six children have the best opportunity for success in their adult lives? Much more difficult than the typical 18 year-old with significantly less obligations. If you toughen up people and let them learn hard lessons they will have the character to succeed. Without a vested interest in their futures, entitlement expectations breed laziness and underperformance. imo Why wouldn't it?
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 15, 2016 12:17:24 GMT -8
America was known for parents and youth Having the ability to sustain in society after age 18. Not anymore. Like third world countries, youth sustain on parents for housing as wages are too low. Unfortunately it's not just after high school, it's also after college. The argument is not about toughening up youth by holding freebies, it's about opportunities to make it on own. These scholarships, grants, loans are all impacted and not looking to be better with new govt. intl students who pay full tuition and subsidize scholarships and grants ain't chopping at the bits anymore for an American education with the current tone, interest rates are on the rise impacting loan repayments, college costs are insane. Agree that millenial generation is spoiled with iPads iPhones and want want want - the answer to that is it reduced opportunities. I don't know if that's what America is known for. I would say that's not at the top of the list of what we're known for. But here again is the problem. People saying minimum wage is supposed to support individuals over 18? That's so subjective and every individual case is unique. That theory would hold true if everyone had the same fixed expenses. We all know that's not the case and couldn't be further from the truth. COL variances are huge geographically and individually. How many of these 18 year-olds are going to go without a cell phone? How about their xbox membership? Internet? Can't do without that. Gotta have cable. I can go on and on. It seems like we want the government to fix our problems for us. Then we get angry when we get laid off because companies have to make money or they go out of business. To say an 18 year-old can't survive on min wage is folly. How does Hackashaq's family survive on minimal income while making sure their six children have the best opportunity for success in their adult lives? Much more difficult than the typical 18 year-old with significantly less obligations. If you toughen up people and let them learn hard lessons they will have the character to succeed. Without a vested interest in their futures, entitlement expectations breed laziness and underperformance. imo Why wouldn't it? Fish - have you lived abroad? Have significant interactions with people abroad? Not being facetious. It's a fact - that's the promise of America. Or was. It's why it's the land of opportunity. Why ppl strive to come here. Not so much anymore? And it most definitely is in the top few items of what she Is or was known for. I realize it's difficult to know for many who take it all for granted. I don't think anybody is asking for a government dole out. To fix the economy? Healthcare system? Social security? You damn right we expect the govt to pay back and be held accountable for all that they collect. Why does the govt get freebies? Let's not feel sorry about businesses churning out billions in profit paying executives in the millions as at risk of going belly up because of a 5 dollar an hour increase on min wage. The govt job is not just to shield the wealthy either.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 15, 2016 12:32:52 GMT -8
I don't know if that's what America is known for. I would say that's not at the top of the list of what we're known for. But here again is the problem. People saying minimum wage is supposed to support individuals over 18? That's so subjective and every individual case is unique. That theory would hold true if everyone had the same fixed expenses. We all know that's not the case and couldn't be further from the truth. COL variances are huge geographically and individually. How many of these 18 year-olds are going to go without a cell phone? How about their xbox membership? Internet? Can't do without that. Gotta have cable. I can go on and on. It seems like we want the government to fix our problems for us. Then we get angry when we get laid off because companies have to make money or they go out of business. To say an 18 year-old can't survive on min wage is folly. How does Hackashaq's family survive on minimal income while making sure their six children have the best opportunity for success in their adult lives? Much more difficult than the typical 18 year-old with significantly less obligations. If you toughen up people and let them learn hard lessons they will have the character to succeed. Without a vested interest in their futures, entitlement expectations breed laziness and underperformance. imo Why wouldn't it? Fish - have you lived abroad? Have significant interactions with people abroad? Not being facetious. It's a fact - that's the promise of America. Or was. It's why it's the land of opportunity. Why ppl strive to come here. Not so much anymore? And it most definitely is in the top few items of what she Is or was known for. I realize it's difficult to know for many who take it all for granted. I don't think anybody is asking for a government dole out. To fix the economy? Healthcare system? Social security? You damn right we expect the govt to pay back and be held accountable for all that they collect. Why does the govt get freebies? Let's not feel sorry about businesses churning out billions in profit paying executives in the millions as at risk of going belly up because of a 5 dollar an hour increase on min wage. The govt job is not just to shield the wealthy either. I'm a fan of you Sam, but I couldn't disagree more. I didn't say the government was doling out anything. What they can do is legislate and mandate increases in minimum wage. As far as why the government gets freebies? Your guess is as good as mine. Hence, my view I'd rather not have government make my decisions for me. They've shown an inability to represent their constituents effectively as opposed to protecting their own self interests. I'm not feeling sorry for businesses that churn out billions in profits. Those aren't the companies that will be most adversely affected. Just like Obamacare, it will be the small businesses that suffer. Further forcing us into a big business advantaged atmosphere going forward. Compound that with economic ebbs and flows and we'll be bailing out big business again just so we can keep our economy from imploding. Bigger is not necessarily better as it pertains to government and business.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 15, 2016 12:37:54 GMT -8
I don't know if that's what America is known for. I would say that's not at the top of the list of what we're known for. But here again is the problem. People saying minimum wage is supposed to support individuals over 18? That's so subjective and every individual case is unique. That theory would hold true if everyone had the same fixed expenses. We all know that's not the case and couldn't be further from the truth. COL variances are huge geographically and individually. How many of these 18 year-olds are going to go without a cell phone? How about their xbox membership? Internet? Can't do without that. Gotta have cable. I can go on and on. It seems like we want the government to fix our problems for us. Then we get angry when we get laid off because companies have to make money or they go out of business. To say an 18 year-old can't survive on min wage is folly. How does Hackashaq's family survive on minimal income while making sure their six children have the best opportunity for success in their adult lives? Much more difficult than the typical 18 year-old with significantly less obligations. If you toughen up people and let them learn hard lessons they will have the character to succeed. Without a vested interest in their futures, entitlement expectations breed laziness and underperformance. imo Why wouldn't it? Fish - have you lived abroad? Have significant interactions with people abroad? Not being facetious. It's a fact - that's the promise of America. Or was. It's why it's the land of opportunity. Why ppl strive to come here. Not so much anymore? And it most definitely is in the top few items of what she Is or was known for. I realize it's difficult to know for many who take it all for granted. I don't think anybody is asking for a government dole out. To fix the economy? Healthcare system? Social security? You damn right we expect the govt to pay back and be held accountable for all that they collect. Why does the govt get freebies? Let's not feel sorry about businesses churning out billions in profit paying executives in the millions as at risk of going belly up because of a 5 dollar an hour increase on min wage. The govt job is not just to shield the wealthy either. I'm scheduled to be traveling to Taiwan in the next month. The following month I'm scheduled to be in Germany and Switzerland. So yes, I travel abroad.
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 15, 2016 12:57:16 GMT -8
Likewise on the fan fish. I hear mostly conservative talking points re small business impact etc etc. it's always the wealthy and the small business owners who get screwed. Obamacare bad etc etc. who's looking out for the small ppl? Glad to hear you travel abroad and hope you can engage in some more of their point of view especially Germany as an example that provides a pretty solid social services for its people.
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 15, 2016 12:58:09 GMT -8
And Switzerland.
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Post by Fanofish on Dec 15, 2016 13:51:54 GMT -8
Likewise on the fan fish. I hear mostly conservative talking points re small business impact etc etc. it's always the wealthy and the small business owners who get screwed. Obamacare bad etc etc. who's looking out for the small ppl? Glad to hear you travel abroad and hope you can engage in some more of their point of view especially Germany as an example that provides a pretty solid social services for its people. Not to get off on a tangent, but labeling one a conservative or liberal irks me. Maybe you can tell by some of my previous points I have what some would label some liberal views on things like the environment, Roe v Wade, reefer madness, etc... Then I have what some would label conservative view on the economy and government involvement. I really think the conservative/liberal dilemma is archaic and divisive. Imo
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 16, 2016 7:58:47 GMT -8
Likewise on the fan fish. I hear mostly conservative talking points re small business impact etc etc. it's always the wealthy and the small business owners who get screwed. Obamacare bad etc etc. who's looking out for the small ppl? Glad to hear you travel abroad and hope you can engage in some more of their point of view especially Germany as an example that provides a pretty solid social services for its people. Not to get off on a tangent, but labeling one a conservative or liberal irks me. Maybe you can tell by some of my previous points I have what some would label some liberal views on things like the environment, Roe v Wade, reefer madness, etc... Then I have what some would label conservative view on the economy and government involvement. I really think the conservative/liberal dilemma is archaic and divisive. Imo Couldn't agree with you more there. Why can't there be a centrist agenda? Get the best of both worlds or ideologies. There will always be disagreements but extreme views on either side, one would think, are unacceptable to the majority
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Post by jimmy on Dec 16, 2016 9:16:11 GMT -8
On a separate note, I pity the person that has to clean up Trump's mess in 4 years. He continues to appoint people that either have no experience in their upcoming role, or are the very antithesis of who should helm that department. I guess he's emptying the swamp right into his cabinet. ____________________
Well, we all know that Trump didn't get where he is alone. I think he's known for hiring smart people to do the work for him. And everybody thought, or thinks, he's going to do the same thing as the President. But looks like he's hiring all the wrong people, at least in our eyes.
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Post by shopson67 on Dec 19, 2016 9:15:35 GMT -8
On a separate note, I pity the person that has to clean up Trump's mess in 4 years. He continues to appoint people that either have no experience in their upcoming role, or are the very antithesis of who should helm that department. I guess he's emptying the swamp right into his cabinet. ____________________ Well, we all know that Trump didn't get where he is alone. I think he's known for hiring smart people to do the work for him. And everybody thought, or thinks, he's going to do the same thing as the President. But looks like he's hiring all the wrong people, at least in our eyes. Anybody who thought Trump was going to hire "the best people" are smashed on his Kool-Aid.
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