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Post by samadams10 on Nov 15, 2022 20:59:26 GMT -8
Trump back in it. Like a bad rash that won't go away. I'm skeptical about a third party run for him. If he starts polling well, the Rs will kiss the ring and fall in line.
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Post by lakeshow on Nov 16, 2022 5:47:21 GMT -8
Trump back in it. Like a bad rash that won't go away. I'm skeptical about a third party run for him. If he starts polling well, the Rs will kiss the ring and fall in line. Yeah, I doubt he would be the 3rd party candidate too Sam, but it could potentially be another candidate who decides to jump in because of Trump's toxic nature and if Biden doesn't significantly turn things around for his party. But 3rd party candidate or not, Trump will not have the appeal he had in 2016 and 2020. He's eroding and Republicans know it. Two years is actually a long time in politics, so a lot can still happen. Trump may not even be on the ballot if these lawsuits begin to catch up to him, his health fails (I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as you can't be mad 24/7 as he is and keep a sound mind), or if things turn around and get better for the country with inflation and the economy...etc. The difference is that while yes, some Republicans will bow down to Trump, I think that enough of them have had enough and are much more willing to go against the MAGA movement because now they can get behind more popular candidates within the Republican Party like DeSantis and maybe even a Pence and not look like a traitor to the party. Trump was all they had in 2020, so it was fall in line or else....but it's a different political landscape now and that makes all the difference. And all of that plays into the Democrat party's favor, IF they play their cards right.
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Post by samadams10 on Nov 16, 2022 8:56:51 GMT -8
Trump back in it. Like a bad rash that won't go away. I'm skeptical about a third party run for him. If he starts polling well, the Rs will kiss the ring and fall in line. Yeah, I doubt he would be the 3rd party candidate too Sam, but it could potentially be another candidate who decides to jump in because of Trump's toxic nature and if Biden doesn't significantly turn things around for his party. But 3rd party candidate or not, Trump will not have the appeal he had in 2016 and 2020. He's eroding and Republicans know it. Two years is actually a long time in politics, so a lot can still happen. Trump may not even be on the ballot if these lawsuits begin to catch up to him, his health fails (I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as you can't be mad 24/7 as he is and keep a sound mind), or if things turn around and get better for the country with inflation and the economy...etc. The difference is that while yes, some Republicans will bow down to Trump, I think that enough of them have had enough and are much more willing to go against the MAGA movement because now they can get behind more popular candidates within the Republican Party like DeSantis and maybe even a Pence and not look like a traitor to the party. Trump was all they had in 2020, so it was fall in line or else....but it's a different political landscape now and that makes all the difference. And all of that plays into the Democrat party's favor, IF they play their cards right. Do you think he gets indicted? The guy is Teflon though as if he gets indicted, he will cry political persecution and gain sympathy and use it to rile up his base. If cleared by DOJ he's going to go way worst than he was in his 2019/20 campaign on divisiveness, discrimination and 2020 election denialism. That too will rile up the magats. The trouble with Rs is that they are so loyal to their party line. A lot of these clowns McConnell, Rubio, McCarthy, Pence loathe him internally but outward they're all sucking dick. Cruz was nicknamed lyin, was told his father was a traitor, he's not American, and his wife is ugly. Yet he's on his knees. Unbelievable. There's no honor in politics. Trump has already fired warning shots at DeSantis - who's a young guy and may decide that it's worth foregoing 2024 to avoid this guys venom. Then all the weasels will fall in line. Again all will come down to how much crowds trump continues to draw and what outrageous divisive poison he comes up with to anger the base all over again. Some topics ripe for him to exploit include the usual immigration and browning of America, abortion, gender transformation, history of slavery, confederate idealism, Covid mitigations, etc. etc. The one problem Rs do have is that there's been a huge migration of the magats from critical swing states up north like WI, MI, PA down to FL and other deep red states like TX. Particularly in Covid as Ron Deathsantis did care how many of his ppl died. Magats love that shit. This is why the Rs won big in these states incl large margins for DeSantis, Rubio, Abbott. Also why Rs struggled in northern swing states except Ohio which s mostly Red now. This is an advantage for D's. The smartest thing D's can do now is retire Biden and not push Harris. If they run a younger centrist, they will have a a significant advantage in 2024. I don't think Newsom is the guy. They have a ton of rising stars in the party - surely they can find one.
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Post by Fanofish on Nov 16, 2022 14:21:48 GMT -8
Yeah, I doubt he would be the 3rd party candidate too Sam, but it could potentially be another candidate who decides to jump in because of Trump's toxic nature and if Biden doesn't significantly turn things around for his party. But 3rd party candidate or not, Trump will not have the appeal he had in 2016 and 2020. He's eroding and Republicans know it. Two years is actually a long time in politics, so a lot can still happen. Trump may not even be on the ballot if these lawsuits begin to catch up to him, his health fails (I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as you can't be mad 24/7 as he is and keep a sound mind), or if things turn around and get better for the country with inflation and the economy...etc. The difference is that while yes, some Republicans will bow down to Trump, I think that enough of them have had enough and are much more willing to go against the MAGA movement because now they can get behind more popular candidates within the Republican Party like DeSantis and maybe even a Pence and not look like a traitor to the party. Trump was all they had in 2020, so it was fall in line or else....but it's a different political landscape now and that makes all the difference. And all of that plays into the Democrat party's favor, IF they play their cards right. Do you think he gets indicted? The guy is Teflon though as if he gets indicted, he will cry political persecution and gain sympathy and use it to rile up his base. If cleared by DOJ he's going to go way worst than he was in his 2019/20 campaign on divisiveness, discrimination and 2020 election denialism. That too will rile up the magats. The trouble with Rs is that they are so loyal to their party line. A lot of these clowns McConnell, Rubio, McCarthy, Pence loathe him internally but outward they're all sucking dick. Cruz was nicknamed lyin, was told his father was a traitor, he's not American, and his wife is ugly. Yet he's on his knees. Unbelievable. There's no honor in politics. Trump has already fired warning shots at DeSantis - who's a young guy and may decide that it's worth foregoing 2024 to avoid this guys venom. Then all the weasels will fall in line. Again all will come down to how much crowds trump continues to draw and what outrageous divisive poison he comes up with to anger the base all over again. Some topics ripe for him to exploit include the usual immigration and browning of America, abortion, gender transformation, history of slavery, confederate idealism, Covid mitigations, etc. etc. The one problem Rs do have is that there's been a huge migration of the magats from critical swing states up north like WI, MI, PA down to FL and other deep red states like TX. Particularly in Covid as Ron Deathsantis did care how many of his ppl died. Magats love that shit. This is why the Rs won big in these states incl large margins for DeSantis, Rubio, Abbott. Also why Rs struggled in northern swing states except Ohio which s mostly Red now. This is an advantage for D's. The smartest thing D's can do now is retire Biden and not push Harris. If they run a younger centrist, they will have a a significant advantage in 2024. I don't think Newsom is the guy. They have a ton of rising stars in the party - surely they can find one. I'm confident many will not agree with me. You know, because everyone usually does. lol My pick for president 2024 is the same as it was in the democratic primaries before the 2020 election. Amy Klobuchar. Unfortunately, she is not as persuasive, charming or articulate as other potential candidates. Side note: I think Pete B is a very good speaker but wouldn't win the national election imo. But in terms of policy and a past track record she has been able to get things done. Through her legislation she has sponsored 49 bills. She has been the chairperson and has been a part of many committees. She would garner Independent and non-MAGAt republican votes as did Biden, but even more so. She would have my vote. But yes, I really can't understand the ignorance and stubbornness related to the D's wanting Biden to run again so I don't even know if Amy would put her hat in the ring. And I agree, the only person Biden could beat is Trump. So if it's him against DeSantis, I think the D's will lose. And I also believe he is even more dangerous than Trump and is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not sure if political strategists can pull their heads out of their arses, but they really seem out of touch with reality (both sides). I wonder what the qualifications are for that gig. We need a new party. The Common Sense Party! Sammy, get it done and you got my vote. haha
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Post by lakeshow on Nov 16, 2022 14:55:41 GMT -8
Yeah, I doubt he would be the 3rd party candidate too Sam, but it could potentially be another candidate who decides to jump in because of Trump's toxic nature and if Biden doesn't significantly turn things around for his party. But 3rd party candidate or not, Trump will not have the appeal he had in 2016 and 2020. He's eroding and Republicans know it. Two years is actually a long time in politics, so a lot can still happen. Trump may not even be on the ballot if these lawsuits begin to catch up to him, his health fails (I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as you can't be mad 24/7 as he is and keep a sound mind), or if things turn around and get better for the country with inflation and the economy...etc. The difference is that while yes, some Republicans will bow down to Trump, I think that enough of them have had enough and are much more willing to go against the MAGA movement because now they can get behind more popular candidates within the Republican Party like DeSantis and maybe even a Pence and not look like a traitor to the party. Trump was all they had in 2020, so it was fall in line or else....but it's a different political landscape now and that makes all the difference. And all of that plays into the Democrat party's favor, IF they play their cards right. Do you think he gets indicted? The guy is Teflon though as if he gets indicted, he will cry political persecution and gain sympathy and use it to rile up his base. If cleared by DOJ he's going to go way worst than he was in his 2019/20 campaign on divisiveness, discrimination and 2020 election denialism. That too will rile up the magats. The trouble with Rs is that they are so loyal to their party line. A lot of these clowns McConnell, Rubio, McCarthy, Pence loathe him internally but outward they're all sucking dick. Cruz was nicknamed lyin, was told his father was a traitor, he's not American, and his wife is ugly. Yet he's on his knees. Unbelievable. There's no honor in politics. Trump has already fired warning shots at DeSantis - who's a young guy and may decide that it's worth foregoing 2024 to avoid this guys venom. Then all the weasels will fall in line. Again all will come down to how much crowds trump continues to draw and what outrageous divisive poison he comes up with to anger the base all over again. Some topics ripe for him to exploit include the usual immigration and browning of America, abortion, gender transformation, history of slavery, confederate idealism, Covid mitigations, etc. etc. The one problem Rs do have is that there's been a huge migration of the magats from critical swing states up north like WI, MI, PA down to FL and other deep red states like TX. Particularly in Covid as Ron Deathsantis did care how many of his ppl died. Magats love that shit. This is why the Rs won big in these states incl large margins for DeSantis, Rubio, Abbott. Also why Rs struggled in northern swing states except Ohio which s mostly Red now. This is an advantage for D's. The smartest thing D's can do now is retire Biden and not push Harris. If they run a younger centrist, they will have a a significant advantage in 2024. I don't think Newsom is the guy. They have a ton of rising stars in the party - surely they can find one. Whether he gets indicted or not, I don't know because as you said, he has been very good at dodging prison or suffering a big defeat in the courts. It's like when his legal team knows they can't win, they throw a lot of money at the other party and settle while not admitting guilt. That's the Trump playbook. That said, I think all of the political attrition was quietly making him more and more toxic to his moderate supporters (not the crazy MAGA fans that will follow him to hell) before the midterms. But now after how bad the midterms went for Republicans that noise is getting much louder. Republicans who stuck behind him in 2016 and 2020 are tired of his act and tired of losing elections, even if they're not saying so publicly. Now he's trashing anyone who he deems a threat to his influence--even fellow Republicans who may run in 2024. There's only so much people are willing to take and he's going to continue to spew false outlandish nonsense that will continue to alienate his supporters. While he announced he's running I'm not convinced yet that he'll be on the ticket when it matters. Get your popcorn out Sammy.
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Post by samadams10 on Nov 16, 2022 16:55:00 GMT -8
Do you think he gets indicted? The guy is Teflon though as if he gets indicted, he will cry political persecution and gain sympathy and use it to rile up his base. If cleared by DOJ he's going to go way worst than he was in his 2019/20 campaign on divisiveness, discrimination and 2020 election denialism. That too will rile up the magats. The trouble with Rs is that they are so loyal to their party line. A lot of these clowns McConnell, Rubio, McCarthy, Pence loathe him internally but outward they're all sucking dick. Cruz was nicknamed lyin, was told his father was a traitor, he's not American, and his wife is ugly. Yet he's on his knees. Unbelievable. There's no honor in politics. Trump has already fired warning shots at DeSantis - who's a young guy and may decide that it's worth foregoing 2024 to avoid this guys venom. Then all the weasels will fall in line. Again all will come down to how much crowds trump continues to draw and what outrageous divisive poison he comes up with to anger the base all over again. Some topics ripe for him to exploit include the usual immigration and browning of America, abortion, gender transformation, history of slavery, confederate idealism, Covid mitigations, etc. etc. The one problem Rs do have is that there's been a huge migration of the magats from critical swing states up north like WI, MI, PA down to FL and other deep red states like TX. Particularly in Covid as Ron Deathsantis did care how many of his ppl died. Magats love that shit. This is why the Rs won big in these states incl large margins for DeSantis, Rubio, Abbott. Also why Rs struggled in northern swing states except Ohio which s mostly Red now. This is an advantage for D's. The smartest thing D's can do now is retire Biden and not push Harris. If they run a younger centrist, they will have a a significant advantage in 2024. I don't think Newsom is the guy. They have a ton of rising stars in the party - surely they can find one. I'm confident many will not agree with me. You know, because everyone usually does. lol My pick for president 2024 is the same as it was in the democratic primaries before the 2020 election. Amy Klobuchar. Unfortunately, she is not as persuasive, charming or articulate as other potential candidates. Side note: I think Pete B is a very good speaker but wouldn't win the national election imo. But in terms of policy and a past track record she has been able to get things done. Through her legislation she has sponsored 49 bills. She has been the chairperson and has been a part of many committees. She would garner Independent and non-MAGAt republican votes as did Biden, but even more so. She would have my vote. But yes, I really can't understand the ignorance and stubbornness related to the D's wanting Biden to run again so I don't even know if Amy would put her hat in the ring. And I agree, the only person Biden could beat is Trump. So if it's him against DeSantis, I think the D's will lose. And I also believe he is even more dangerous than Trump and is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not sure if political strategists can pull their heads out of their arses, but they really seem out of touch with reality (both sides). I wonder what the qualifications are for that gig. We need a new party. The Common Sense Party! Sammy, get it done and you got my vote. haha Count me out man. I rum as far away from politics as possible 🤣. I despise politics. But I completely agree that DeSantis is more dangerous as he will get it done behind the scenes whereas Trump can't his mouth shut and social media fingers jammed. I like Klobuchar but she's definitely not the most savvy candidate at the national level. If only there was a common sense party that takes the good ideas from both sides....
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Post by samadams10 on Nov 16, 2022 16:58:11 GMT -8
Do you think he gets indicted? The guy is Teflon though as if he gets indicted, he will cry political persecution and gain sympathy and use it to rile up his base. If cleared by DOJ he's going to go way worst than he was in his 2019/20 campaign on divisiveness, discrimination and 2020 election denialism. That too will rile up the magats. The trouble with Rs is that they are so loyal to their party line. A lot of these clowns McConnell, Rubio, McCarthy, Pence loathe him internally but outward they're all sucking dick. Cruz was nicknamed lyin, was told his father was a traitor, he's not American, and his wife is ugly. Yet he's on his knees. Unbelievable. There's no honor in politics. Trump has already fired warning shots at DeSantis - who's a young guy and may decide that it's worth foregoing 2024 to avoid this guys venom. Then all the weasels will fall in line. Again all will come down to how much crowds trump continues to draw and what outrageous divisive poison he comes up with to anger the base all over again. Some topics ripe for him to exploit include the usual immigration and browning of America, abortion, gender transformation, history of slavery, confederate idealism, Covid mitigations, etc. etc. The one problem Rs do have is that there's been a huge migration of the magats from critical swing states up north like WI, MI, PA down to FL and other deep red states like TX. Particularly in Covid as Ron Deathsantis did care how many of his ppl died. Magats love that shit. This is why the Rs won big in these states incl large margins for DeSantis, Rubio, Abbott. Also why Rs struggled in northern swing states except Ohio which s mostly Red now. This is an advantage for D's. The smartest thing D's can do now is retire Biden and not push Harris. If they run a younger centrist, they will have a a significant advantage in 2024. I don't think Newsom is the guy. They have a ton of rising stars in the party - surely they can find one. Whether he gets indicted or not, I don't know because as you said, he has been very good at dodging prison or suffering a big defeat in the courts. It's like when his legal team knows they can't win, they throw a lot of money at the other party and settle while not admitting guilt. That's the Trump playbook. That said, I think all of the political attrition was quietly making him more and more toxic to his moderate supporters (not the crazy MAGA fans that will follow him to hell) before the midterms. But now after how bad the midterms went for Republicans that noise is getting much louder. Republicans who stuck behind him in 2016 and 2020 are tired of his act and tired of losing elections, even if they're not saying so publicly. Now he's trashing anyone who he deems a threat to his influence--even fellow Republicans who may run in 2024. There's only so much people are willing to take and he's going to continue to spew false outlandish nonsense that will continue to alienate his supporters. While he announced he's running I'm not convinced yet that he'll be on the ticket when it matters. Get your popcorn out Sammy. Yep it will be interesting indeed. It will be a nuts if the Rs fall in line again after these midterms. He will never change and will try to destroy every other R that gets in his way. Ultimately the R voters decide in the primaries.
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Post by shopson67 on Nov 23, 2022 8:58:43 GMT -8
Whether he gets indicted or not, I don't know because as you said, he has been very good at dodging prison or suffering a big defeat in the courts. It's like when his legal team knows they can't win, they throw a lot of money at the other party and settle while not admitting guilt. That's the Trump playbook. That said, I think all of the political attrition was quietly making him more and more toxic to his moderate supporters (not the crazy MAGA fans that will follow him to hell) before the midterms. But now after how bad the midterms went for Republicans that noise is getting much louder. Republicans who stuck behind him in 2016 and 2020 are tired of his act and tired of losing elections, even if they're not saying so publicly. Now he's trashing anyone who he deems a threat to his influence--even fellow Republicans who may run in 2024. There's only so much people are willing to take and he's going to continue to spew false outlandish nonsense that will continue to alienate his supporters. While he announced he's running I'm not convinced yet that he'll be on the ticket when it matters. Get your popcorn out Sammy. Yep it will be interesting indeed. It will be a nuts if the Rs fall in line again after these midterms. He will never change and will try to destroy every other R that gets in his way. Ultimately the R voters decide in the primaries. ...if he's not indicted
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Post by samadams10 on Nov 23, 2022 13:19:53 GMT -8
Yep it will be interesting indeed. It will be a nuts if the Rs fall in line again after these midterms. He will never change and will try to destroy every other R that gets in his way. Ultimately the R voters decide in the primaries. ...if he's not indicted you Doesn't look like Garland has the balls to do anything. He punted to a special prosecutor who is equally ballless
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Post by history2b on Nov 23, 2022 14:24:37 GMT -8
you Doesn't look like Garland has the balls to do anything. He punted to a special prosecutor who is equally ballless All center politics is ballless.
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Post by shopson67 on Nov 30, 2022 9:31:59 GMT -8
you Doesn't look like Garland has the balls to do anything. He punted to a special prosecutor who is equally ballless It's an extension of how the left works vs how the right works. The left worries about perception, tries to be as transparent as possible. The right doesn't give a shit and keeps pushing hard.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 3, 2022 16:40:32 GMT -8
Is the noose actually closing in around Trump's neck with a New York federal court jury now in deliberation of a verdict against the Trump Org., the Jan. 6th committee now having a hold of his tax returns, and of course pending charges coming from the DOJ.....along with about 10 other lawsuits against him for various reasons?
Or will he be able dodge his way out these as well?
Either way, I think we're going to know some of these verdicts before the end of the year.
By the way, it was good that the federal court found 2 of the Oath keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy on Monday. That carries a weight of at least 20 years in prison.
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 4, 2022 7:29:53 GMT -8
Is the noose actually closing in around Trump's neck with a New York federal court jury now in deliberation of a verdict against the Trump Org., the Jan. 6th committee now having a hold of his tax returns, and of course pending charges coming from the DOJ.....along with about 10 other lawsuits against him for various reasons? Or will he be able dodge his way out these as well? Either way, I think we're going to know some of these verdicts before the end of the year. By the way, it was good that the federal court found 2 of the Oath keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy on Monday. That carries a weight of at least 20 years in prison. I think it all still comes down to polls and popularity. If it looks like he's continuing a stranglehold on the bigktee but significant element of that lartyz weasels like McCarthy, Cotton, Rubio, Cruz, Graham will fall in line again to eat his shit.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 4, 2022 13:12:57 GMT -8
Is the noose actually closing in around Trump's neck with a New York federal court jury now in deliberation of a verdict against the Trump Org., the Jan. 6th committee now having a hold of his tax returns, and of course pending charges coming from the DOJ.....along with about 10 other lawsuits against him for various reasons? Or will he be able dodge his way out these as well? Either way, I think we're going to know some of these verdicts before the end of the year. By the way, it was good that the federal court found 2 of the Oath keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy on Monday. That carries a weight of at least 20 years in prison. I think it all still comes down to polls and popularity. If it looks like he's continuing a stranglehold on the bigktee but significant element of that lartyz weasels like McCarthy, Cotton, Rubio, Cruz, Graham will fall in line again to eat his shit. What I meant though was from the courts. I think Trump has already quietly lost a stranglehold on the Republican Party. Most just aren't publicly saying it yet, but the cracks are now visible and if these court rulings are not in his favor, it will just make it easier for them to abandon him publicly.
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 6, 2022 13:29:51 GMT -8
So what's the implication of this. Apparently not much. Teflon Don persists. Donald Trump and his family were not charged in this case, but the former president was mentioned repeatedly during the trial by prosecutors about his connection to the benefits doled out to certain executives, including company-funded apartments, car leases and personal expenses. www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-organization-fraud-trial-verdict/index.html
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 6, 2022 16:34:01 GMT -8
So what's the implication of this. Apparently not much. Teflon Don persists. Donald Trump and his family were not charged in this case, but the former president was mentioned repeatedly during the trial by prosecutors about his connection to the benefits doled out to certain executives, including company-funded apartments, car leases and personal expenses. www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-organization-fraud-trial-verdict/index.htmlI don't know, but I would rather have him charged for tax evasion, his role in Jan.6th insurrection, and/or his interference in the Georgia 2020 election. Those are more serious in that he can actually serve time in prison. He won't lose too much sleep for losing a few million dollars if he lost in the trial against his organization. I want that cockroach to serve time in jail.
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 7, 2022 5:47:53 GMT -8
So the Trump Org. was found guilty of criminal tax fraud on all counts, and Herschel Walker loses to Warnock in Georgia.
Bad day for Trump and good day for democracy.
Hoping we hear more good news this month with the other cases against him....
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 7, 2022 10:20:09 GMT -8
So the Trump Org. was found guilty of criminal tax fraud on all counts, and Herschel Walker loses to Warnock in Georgia. Bad day for Trump and good day for democracy. Hoping we hear more good news this month with the other cases against him.... Herschel loss along with all the other losses by trumpists such as Kari lake, Mehmet oz etc are finally showing a decline of trumpism. The bad news is how much this dude will increase racism anti semitism and other divisive issues to anger up the base and regain support. Btw did anyone see how McConnell and McCarthy totally get snubbed on handshakes by the Jan 6 Congressional award recipients?
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Post by lakeshow on Dec 7, 2022 11:34:32 GMT -8
So the Trump Org. was found guilty of criminal tax fraud on all counts, and Herschel Walker loses to Warnock in Georgia. Bad day for Trump and good day for democracy. Hoping we hear more good news this month with the other cases against him.... Herschel loss along with all the other losses by trumpists such as Kari lake, Mehmet oz etc are finally showing a decline of trumpism. The bad news is how much this dude will increase racism anti semitism and other divisive issues to anger up the base and regain support. Btw did anyone see how McConnell and McCarthy totally get snubbed on handshakes by the Jan 6 Congressional award recipients? Yup, I did. And I loved it too. To me, they are the worst of the worst. The only thing they care about is staying in power, principle and courage to do and say the right thing be damned as far as they're concerned. Heck, McConnell will just let Trump say anything he wants about his wife who happens to be Chinese. Trump has said racist things about her publicly, and Mitch won't say a word because he's a coward and so scared that the Trump chimp minions will vote him out of being the Senate minority leader or that he'll lose influence. Same with McCarthy, he wants to appease all the bottom of the barrel cesspool (Trump) Republicans in the House so he can be Speaker of the House.
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Post by samadams10 on Dec 7, 2022 12:08:34 GMT -8
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