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Post by shaolinfighter on Jun 4, 2024 10:09:42 GMT -8
Things always seem to eventually swing back the other way and each time in recent history here it keeps swinging back further. Trumps "lock her up" stuff is now swinging back on to him. And if he gets elected again who tf knows what he'd feel emboldened to do in response. Would he drop it all again? Not sure now. It's not good for political opponents to feel they have to win or else face jail. Most of them are all slimeballs anyways and charges can be found on almost anyone.
The two party system is an absolute joke right now. Both are corrupt and just another side of the same coin in many ways at this point imo. Independent candidates don't have a prayer. I don't think the country is moving in the right direction with either party. I might be staying home this November.
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hackashaq
::| Basketball Guru |::
Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Jun 6, 2024 13:23:19 GMT -8
Clinton essentially melded the Democratic Party to the Republican Party. There wasn’t that much difference at that point.
But as you think would have been predictable, this just emboldened the Republican Party to stretch and push out its definition of conservative.
Which leads us to where we are now.
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Post by history2b on Jun 6, 2024 16:15:23 GMT -8
Clinton essentially melded the Democratic Party to the Republican Party. There wasn’t that much difference at that point. But as you think would have been predictable, this just emboldened the Republican Party to stretch and push out its definition of conservative. Which leads us to where we are now. Yup, very much so. It started with Clinton but also extended through Obama. Barack had a clean slate in 2008: he won the White House and the Dems took both houses of Congress. He inherited the worst financial crisis since 1929 Depression and had the opportunity to enact all the modern day New Deal reforms that are very clearly the answer now. He failed to do so and continued Clinton’s corporate servitude. It looked like the politically prudent thing to do at the time but has led to significant disaster on every front since.
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Post by shaolinfighter on Jun 28, 2024 6:50:07 GMT -8
Good lawd... Joe did not do himself any favors last night. Gotta be thinking of replacing him? Kinda strange this debate was held so early. Post-primaries and pre-convention timing now so they'd basically be hand picking a Dem candidate without a primary. But do they straight up pass on Kamala due to her bad polling and look elsewhere?
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Post by history2b on Jun 28, 2024 11:29:16 GMT -8
Par for the course for the Dems at this point. They propped up old ass Biden four years ago lecturing everyone within the party that he was “the only one who can defeat Trump.” They also selected a weak Vice Presidential candidate for politically correct identity politics points. She’s a stiff of a politician with no substance no grit. They chose a butter knife at a time of war like the incompetent morons that they are.
And they deserve to lose because of their egregious incompetence.
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Post by samadams10 on Jun 30, 2024 13:02:20 GMT -8
Par for the course for the Dems at this point. They propped up old ass Biden four years ago lecturing everyone within the party that he was “the only one who can defeat Trump.” They also selected a weak Vice Presidential candidate for politically correct identity politics points. She’s a stiff of a politician with no substance no grit. They chose a butter knife at a time of war like the incompetent morons that they are. And they deserve to lose because of their egregious incompetence. Shit man. No good options both ways. This is nuts.
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Post by history2b on Jun 30, 2024 13:18:37 GMT -8
Par for the course for the Dems at this point. They propped up old ass Biden four years ago lecturing everyone within the party that he was “the only one who can defeat Trump.” They also selected a weak Vice Presidential candidate for politically correct identity politics points. She’s a stiff of a politician with no substance no grit. They chose a butter knife at a time of war like the incompetent morons that they are. And they deserve to lose because of their egregious incompetence. Shit man. No good options both ways. This is nuts. Symptoms of a failed state.
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Post by samadams10 on Jun 30, 2024 14:07:09 GMT -8
Shit man. No good options both ways. This is nuts. Symptoms of a failed state. Would you say Reagan was a turning point for R party and Bill C for D party?
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Post by history2b on Jun 30, 2024 19:09:36 GMT -8
Symptoms of a failed state. Would you say Reagan was a turning point for R party and Bill C for D party? I think you can trace the shift in the R Party to Nixon first but even his ethics were a light year ahead of where they ultimately landed with Trump. He had the dignity to resign because the preservation of the office of President was still too valuable to the party. But Reagan indeed successfully embraced the neoconservative strategy of dismantling the Keynesian economic model of the New Deal that had been in place for decades. Bush further dismantled and Clinton, being a good Southern boy did “the right thing” (as painted by right wing and even some mainstream media outlets) and made deals based on “pro business” so not to “destroy the economy.”
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Post by lakeshow on Jun 30, 2024 22:07:10 GMT -8
Par for the course for the Dems at this point. They propped up old ass Biden four years ago lecturing everyone within the party that he was “the only one who can defeat Trump.” They also selected a weak Vice Presidential candidate for politically correct identity politics points. She’s a stiff of a politician with no substance no grit. They chose a butter knife at a time of war like the incompetent morons that they are. And they deserve to lose because of their egregious incompetence. The Democratic Party may have certainly gotten in their own way to a degree but to me the larger problem is the 2 party system. The American political infrastructure is just too vulnerable to the corporate machine that has way too much influence to determine the outcome of elections. And while I understand why you said what you said (in bold) 2b, whatever "egregious incompetence" there may exist within the Democratic Party, I would argue that it's 10 times worse in the Republican Party in the sense that they have sold every moral they could possibly stand on to get behind a convicted felon who is a liar, a cheat, a rapist, a con man, an authoritarian, and a racist to maintain power. To me, that's 20 times worse than where the Democratic Party is and far worse than Biden. I understand people have issues with the current president, but how in the world would electing the alternative be better given that we ALREADY KNOW how he will govern because he's not running to be president for the good of the country, he's running for 2 reasons. One, to avoid any further convictions for laws he has already broken and second to get back at his so-called political enemies--that's it. There's nothing honorable about that and if anyone thinks otherwise about Trump's motives, then I seriously question their intellectual honesty.
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Post by history2b on Jul 1, 2024 12:49:18 GMT -8
Par for the course for the Dems at this point. They propped up old ass Biden four years ago lecturing everyone within the party that he was “the only one who can defeat Trump.” They also selected a weak Vice Presidential candidate for politically correct identity politics points. She’s a stiff of a politician with no substance no grit. They chose a butter knife at a time of war like the incompetent morons that they are. And they deserve to lose because of their egregious incompetence. The Democratic Party may have certainly gotten in their own way to a degree but to me the larger problem is the 2 party system. The American political infrastructure is just too vulnerable to the corporate machine that has way too much influence to determine the outcome of elections. And while I understand why you said what you said (in bold) 2b, whatever "egregious incompetence" there may exist within the Democratic Party, I would argue that it's 10 times worse in the Republican Party in the sense that they have sold every moral they could possibly stand on to get behind a convicted felon who is a liar, a cheat, a rapist, a con man, an authoritarian, and a racist to maintain power. To me, that's 20 times worse than where the Democratic Party is and far worse than Biden. I understand people have issues with the current president, but how in the world would electing the alternative be better given that we ALREADY KNOW how he will govern because he's not running to be president for the good of the country, he's running for 2 reasons. One, to avoid any further convictions for laws he has already broken and second to get back at his so-called political enemies--that's it. There's nothing honorable about that and if anyone thinks otherwise about Trump's motives, then I seriously question their intellectual honesty. I won’t get into the Republican Party at this point as I’ve already shared plenty on them over the years. I agree they are worse but I know that pointing out the line in the sand on differences does not work. If the Dems can be painted as corrupt and incompetent the lesser of 2 evils argument falls flat on its face, not necessarily every time but in a situation of 3 straight election cycles, the argument won’t hold up. The system is broken and has been broken for a long time. It is time to tear down and rebuild if there is ever going to be a repair of America imo. We absolutely need new parties and new legal system which means a new Constitution. Hard for some people to believe because of indoctrination but the old white dudes didn’t have it all figured out to infinity in 1776-87
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Post by lakeshow on Jul 1, 2024 13:10:35 GMT -8
The Democratic Party may have certainly gotten in their own way to a degree but to me the larger problem is the 2 party system. The American political infrastructure is just too vulnerable to the corporate machine that has way too much influence to determine the outcome of elections. And while I understand why you said what you said (in bold) 2b, whatever "egregious incompetence" there may exist within the Democratic Party, I would argue that it's 10 times worse in the Republican Party in the sense that they have sold every moral they could possibly stand on to get behind a convicted felon who is a liar, a cheat, a rapist, a con man, an authoritarian, and a racist to maintain power. To me, that's 20 times worse than where the Democratic Party is and far worse than Biden. I understand people have issues with the current president, but how in the world would electing the alternative be better given that we ALREADY KNOW how he will govern because he's not running to be president for the good of the country, he's running for 2 reasons. One, to avoid any further convictions for laws he has already broken and second to get back at his so-called political enemies--that's it. There's nothing honorable about that and if anyone thinks otherwise about Trump's motives, then I seriously question their intellectual honesty. I won’t get into the Republican Party at this point as I’ve already shared plenty on them over the years. I agree they are worse but I know that pointing out the line in the same on differences does not work. If the Dems can be painted as corrupt and incompetent the lesser of 2 evils argument falls flat on its face, not necessarily every time but in a situation of 3 straight election cycles, the argument won’t hold up. The system is broken and has been broken for a long time. It is time to tear down and rebuild if there is ever going to be a repair of America imo. We absolutely need new parties and new legal system which means a new Constitution. Hard for some people to believe because of indoctrination but the old white dudes didn’t have it all figured out to infinity in 1776-87 I agree that the 2 party political system is not working, but I have no idea when and how that will be fixed. May be long after I'm gone from this earth. But until then, I'll take the Democrat party as the lesser of two evils, seven days a week and twice on Sundays.
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Post by history2b on Jul 1, 2024 13:38:27 GMT -8
I won’t get into the Republican Party at this point as I’ve already shared plenty on them over the years. I agree they are worse but I know that pointing out the line in the same on differences does not work. If the Dems can be painted as corrupt and incompetent the lesser of 2 evils argument falls flat on its face, not necessarily every time but in a situation of 3 straight election cycles, the argument won’t hold up. The system is broken and has been broken for a long time. It is time to tear down and rebuild if there is ever going to be a repair of America imo. We absolutely need new parties and new legal system which means a new Constitution. Hard for some people to believe because of indoctrination but the old white dudes didn’t have it all figured out to infinity in 1776-87 I agree that the 2 party political system is not working, but I have no idea when and how that will be fixed. May be long after I'm gone from this earth. But until then, I'll take the Democrat party as the lesser of two evils, seven days a week and twice on Sundays. You can, I can and plenty of others can and it won’t make a difference in the end. The match has already been lit and the blaze is burning all around us now and choosing between Dem and Republican is like choosing between a squirt gun and more gasoline. In the end they’ll both burn it all.
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Post by lakeshow on Jul 1, 2024 14:24:39 GMT -8
I agree that the 2 party political system is not working, but I have no idea when and how that will be fixed. May be long after I'm gone from this earth. But until then, I'll take the Democrat party as the lesser of two evils, seven days a week and twice on Sundays. You can, I can and plenty of others can and it won’t make a difference in the end. The match has already been lit and the blaze is burning all around us now and choosing between Dem and Republican is like choosing between a squirt gun and more gasoline. In the end they’ll both burn it all. But it's not about Dem vs Repub to me, I'm not aligned with either one of them. That said, I'm not going to cast my vote for the party that willingly gets behind such toxic candidate(s) who will openly defy the rule of law to gain and maintain power. Not saying that Democrats are not above this as well, but it's a CLEAR night and day difference which party will overwhelmingly do anything to suppress civil rights, democracy, decency, and anything that generally helps all people in order to hold on to their seats of power. And in this election in particular, it's clear to me which candidate would do just that within ONE election cycle.
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Post by history2b on Jul 1, 2024 14:35:34 GMT -8
You can, I can and plenty of others can and it won’t make a difference in the end. The match has already been lit and the blaze is burning all around us now and choosing between Dem and Republican is like choosing between a squirt gun and more gasoline. In the end they’ll both burn it all. But it's not about Dem vs Repub to me, I'm not aligned with either one of them. That said, I'm not going to cast my vote for the party that willingly gets behind such toxic candidate(s) who will openly defy the rule of law to gain and maintain power. Not saying that Democrats are not above this as well, but it's a CLEAR night and day difference which party will overwhelmingly do anything to suppress civil rights, democracy, decency, and anything that generally helps all people in order to hold on to their seats of power. And in this election in particular, it's clear to me which candidate would do just that within ONE election cycle. I don’t think it’s not clear to me either but elections aren’t won on what is logical and clear or true necessarily. The real lesson here is if you auction both parties off to corruption of corporate and concentrated power the people suffering below wont play the game of well one is lesser evil than the other forever. It simply wont work and in the end both parties are complicit in that degradation of society. One can argue whom is more responsible than the other but it doesn’t matter if together they both sink the ship. Dems sold the working class down the river long ago and they are and will continue to suffer the consequences of that. Dark times ahead for sure though.
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Post by lakeshow on Jul 1, 2024 15:35:59 GMT -8
But it's not about Dem vs Repub to me, I'm not aligned with either one of them. That said, I'm not going to cast my vote for the party that willingly gets behind such toxic candidate(s) who will openly defy the rule of law to gain and maintain power. Not saying that Democrats are not above this as well, but it's a CLEAR night and day difference which party will overwhelmingly do anything to suppress civil rights, democracy, decency, and anything that generally helps all people in order to hold on to their seats of power. And in this election in particular, it's clear to me which candidate would do just that within ONE election cycle. I don’t think it’s not clear to me either but elections aren’t won on what is logical and clear or true necessarily. The real lesson here is if you auction both parties off to corruption of corporate and concentrated power the people suffering below wont play the game of well one is lesser evil than the other forever. It simply wont work and in the end both parties are complicit in that degradation of society. One can argue whom is more responsible than the other but it doesn’t matter if together they both sink the ship. Dems sold the working class down the river long ago and they are and will continue to suffer the consequences of that. Dark times ahead for sure though. Your argument is theoretically correct. However, what is the alternative? Sit back be pissed off and just not vote? If it's going to crash, then it's going to crash, but I would rather do everything on my part to keep it from happening sooner than it has to.
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Post by history2b on Jul 1, 2024 15:43:04 GMT -8
I don’t think it’s not clear to me either but elections aren’t won on what is logical and clear or true necessarily. The real lesson here is if you auction both parties off to corruption of corporate and concentrated power the people suffering below wont play the game of well one is lesser evil than the other forever. It simply wont work and in the end both parties are complicit in that degradation of society. One can argue whom is more responsible than the other but it doesn’t matter if together they both sink the ship. Dems sold the working class down the river long ago and they are and will continue to suffer the consequences of that. Dark times ahead for sure though. Your argument is theoretically correct. However, what is the alternative? Sit back be pissed off and just not vote? If it's going to crash, then it's going to crash, but I would rather do everything on my part to keep it from happening sooner than it has to. Support a 3rd party. It’s not going to happen this election cycle but it will happen eventually. Boomers and Gen X won’t do it because Boomers particularly are among the most indoctrinated people of all who believe in a magical mythical America. But Gen Z and younger I believe wholeheartedly will. This is something that will play out over time, perhaps even 2 decades imo.
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Post by lakeshow on Jul 1, 2024 15:55:53 GMT -8
Your argument is theoretically correct. However, what is the alternative? Sit back be pissed off and just not vote? If it's going to crash, then it's going to crash, but I would rather do everything on my part to keep it from happening sooner than it has to. Support a 3rd party. It’s not going to happen this election cycle but it will happen eventually. Boomers and Gen X won’t do it because Boomers particularly are among the most indoctrinated people of all who believe in a magical mythical America. But Gen Z and younger I believe wholeheartedly will. This is something that will play out over time, perhaps even 2 decades imo. Yes, but it will certainly take a while. European countries commonly have multiple parties and that's how it should be. Having multiple political parties breaks or at least will significantly reduce the stranglehold the corporate machine has on American elections.
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Post by history2b on Jul 1, 2024 16:00:54 GMT -8
Support a 3rd party. It’s not going to happen this election cycle but it will happen eventually. Boomers and Gen X won’t do it because Boomers particularly are among the most indoctrinated people of all who believe in a magical mythical America. But Gen Z and younger I believe wholeheartedly will. This is something that will play out over time, perhaps even 2 decades imo. Yes, but it will certainly take a while. European countries commonly have multiple parties and that's how it should be. Having multiple political parties breaks or at least will significantly reduce the stranglehold the corporate machine has on American elections. I mean, the entire concept of “democracy” being reduced down to 2 parties 90% aligned across domestic and international policy, both under the same corporate control, and whom play up the squabbling over the remaining 10% of ideas for politics theater purposes is not a democracy by any means.
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hackashaq
::| Basketball Guru |::
Posts: 3,292
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Post by hackashaq on Jul 1, 2024 18:47:53 GMT -8
After this SCOTUS ruling, we're all f*cked. Right radicals in France. Hungarian leadership in the EU Parliament. China barking at Taiwan.
The regional and international landscape seems eerily similar to the late 1920's and early 1930's.
That didn't turn out well for anyone.
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